Kate Anthony: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back. I am excited to have this conversation today because I think it’s one that, oh gosh, so many of us need to have but don’t want to have. I have with me today Marni Blank. She is an end of life and after loss consultant and the founder of Begin with the End, a Brooklyn-based practice that helps people get their lives in order before a crisis forces the issue.

She’s a former attorney and a trained mediator, end of life doula, and after loss specialist, and Marni works with individuals and families on advanced planning, caregiving support, and estate administration. And a lot of this comes into play when we’re getting divorced, when we have to reshuffle all of our estate issues and our beneficiaries and this and that and the other thing, right?

So Marni, thank you so much for being here to [00:01:00] have this conversation. 

Marni Blank: Thanks so much, Kate. This is… It’s such an important conversation, and this is, really s- a point in someone’s life where having this conversation is really important. 

Kate Anthony: Absolutely. So look, we s- starting off divorce is so overwhelming, right?

We have so many decisions to make and, many of them feel like the more pressing. What is our custody situation’s gonna be like? Where am I gonna live? How am I gonna afford to, support my family on one income now or just on support, right? So then a lot of the other things that might feel like lesser things end up falling through the cracks.

So where do you help people to start when it comes to updating their per- paperwork? During the divorce, after the divorce, right? What needs updating? Everything. 

Marni Blank: All, all the things. But I [00:02:00] think it’s important to acknowledge, as one gets into this paperwork, to acknowledge both the decision fatigue that you just mentioned, that there are all of these really important things that someone needs to all of a sudden figure out and figure out quickly and also the grief that comes along with having to make all those decisions, whether it’s the grief of the end of the marriage, the grief of the life that you thought that you were living and you’re having to pivot.

The grief of having a one-family household, one income household. There are so many different layers of grief that need to be addressed, and a lot of those feelings and emotions come out when doing this paperwork. It’s not just paperwork. Just like money isn’t just money, there are so many different emotions behind it, and I think it really needs to be acknowledged and welcomed, that part, into the conversation, that it’s not just here’s the form.

Fill it out.” That person, the person that was your healthcare proxy, for instance, that’s one of the most [00:03:00] important things to update. A healthcare proxy, for those who don’t know, is that document that says, “If something were to happen to me medically and I was unable to make decisions for myself, who would make those decisions for me?”

And that could have been your husband, your partner, whoever. It could have been that person, and having to make a different choice to have to s- to say, to acknowledge that I have to choose someone else who’s gonna be showing up for me, there are a lot of things behind that, and so it does bring…

There has to be a lot of conversations about who is the right next person to do that for me. So that’s just one example of what paperwork needs to be done. 

Kate Anthony: Is there a checklist? Okay, we need the healthcare proxy. We need the, change the beneficiaries, or do we need to change the bene- right?

Because- … I interestingly, I just had this conversation with my ex-husband. We’ve been divorced for 17, 18 years almost, and but he just got [00:04:00] divorced again for a second time, and he, so now he was actually putting me back on everything, right? Because, we’re amicable. We share a kid, and he’s like, “Listen, if something were to happen to me,” he has another son as well, but his bio- biological mom is not in, really in the picture, so I’m more the, the- maternal proxy in that, right?

And so- 

Marni Blank: Yeah … it was like he is he’s like, “Is it okay if 

Kate Anthony: I 

Marni Blank: put 

Kate Anthony: you 

Marni Blank: back on everything?” And I’m like, “Yeah, of course,” right? But not every marriage ends horribly, right? There could continue to, remain co-parenting, or there was a deep friendship that continues. It doesn’t mean that you need to kick everyone off the paperwork.

It’s really just a moment to sit and to take inventory of are the, are these… if I had these documents in place before, are they still up to date? And if they aren’t, if I need to make changes, who are the right people for those roles now? And that’s at any point in someone’s life. I’m always recommending, and I’ll [00:05:00] get back to your checklist question, but, I’m always recommending everyone checking their paperwork every, three to five years unless there’s sort of an intervening factor in between where it’s, it comes to the forefront.

But there’s a- there’s always different changes in our relationships, and you might have a best friend who was there for 20 years, and there might be a falling out, or someone could have passed or is sick, and you know that they might not be able to show up the way that they otherwise would have. So it’s not just divorce it’s all of your relationships can change and the beauty of these forms and these roles that you’re choosing is they can always be updated.

There– nothing is set in stone which is a good thing because life changes. We’re, we don’t know what to expect. But in terms of a checklist, I do have on my website some free downloads of all the important things to get into place whether that’s digital or just, organize your paperwork.

But some of the main things I would say are, making sure your healthcare proxy is in order first and foremost because you want someone to be [00:06:00] able to step in and support you if something were to happen medically. And then with that comes a living will. That’s just sharing what my wishes are.

Do I want life-sustaining treatment? Do I want you know- Do I, is there, are there spiritual or religious things that come into play when it comes to my medical, you know- … needs? 

So thinking about, you’re naming who’s doing what, and then giving them sort of an instruction manual to follow.

It is updating those beneficiaries. So sometimes y- you would want to keep them in place and, but most of the time in a divorce, that person may have been your next of kin, the, the person that you would want to gain your assets, and many times that’s not who you want after. I worked with a client who we were going through her beneficiaries.

She hadn’t checked them in several years, and it turned out that on a couple of her accounts her ex-fiance was still listed, and that would’ve been hundreds of thousands of dollars that had gone to this person [00:07:00] who, clearly she did not want to get those to get that, that money. And, only by taking inventory and checking and making sure that those are updated- Right

is making your wishes known. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, one of the things that my ex-husband had was that, who’s gonna be, if he were to pass before my, before the kids were adults, w- our son is an adult, but the other one too having me be, manage the trust, be

so that- 

Marni Blank: A trustee. … 

Kate Anthony: The trustee, so that, and he was like, “Do you want that responsibility? Is it okay to give you that responsibility?” And I was like, “Yeah, it’s for our kids. Of course.” But you wanna make sure that the person who’s on that is the person who is not gonna steal all the money from the kids and, or whatever, right?

Marni Blank: And I think the other thing that, that you said that is very important to highlight is to get consent for people that you’re putting in those roles, whether it’s for your healthcare proxy, your power of attorney- [00:08:00] 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, 

Marni Blank: … For the executor or trustee of your will. These are all important roles that- Right

come with a level of responsibility and time and energy and effort, and you wanna make sure that person is on board and that they know what they’re signing up for. I can’t tell you how many people just put people down in these roles and don’t tell them, or say, “Oh, by the way, you’re my executor.”

An executor, being an executor is hundreds of hours of work, usually takes 12 to 18 months to close an estate. These are big responsibilities that you’re giving to people, so you wanna make sure that they’re on board. So I’m glad that he asked before, 

Kate Anthony: before doing that. He did, yeah. We had a really good conversation about it.

And, it also makes me think of my mom, who when we were talking about her healthcare proxy, she was very intentional about saying, “Do you want to be the person to make the final decision?” If I, if, God forbid I was on life support and you needed to make the decision to end my life, do you want that [00:09:00] final decision, or do you, would you rather have it be someone who was a little bit, she actually gave it to- More-

my ex-husband who, because he’s a little more removed, but also would work, in concert with me. And, I was like, “Yeah, I don’t want that.” I do not wanna be… obviously I want to be in the room making the decision, but also I don’t like the final. I don’t know, if I want that myself.

So she has me, my ex-husband and I think her friend who’s a doctor. Together we’ll make that decision. But oh my gosh, like speaking of consent, like that’s a big thing to put on somebody if they don’t want it, right? 

Marni Blank: It is a big thing, and it’s also great. The, the other important reason is to have someone be that one person who gets to make decisions, that it’s, in writing, is that, and oftentimes in families there are different family dynamics that come into play, and maybe siblings don’t necessarily have the same views about whether they wanna [00:10:00] have life-sustaining treatment for a parent or not or whether someone wants to be buried versus cremated.

And s- and that can really cause a lot of conflict in the family if there’s not one final decision maker. And so everyone could be part of those decisions. But naming someone who’s like, “Okay, but it’s my legal right to do it,” is really important to save those family dynamics and to not cause extra conflict.

Kate Anthony: So in terms of divorce we’re shifting Potentially. But I think what we’re asking is we want you to put some intentional thought behind whether or not you’re shifting those decisions. And, in terms of let’s say just starting with like a healthcare proxy, like how do you even approach that subject with i- in your divor- is this part of the divorce conversation, do you think?

In my mind, I think yes, it should be part of the, your planning. But what do you th- how do you help people with that in divorce, right? ‘Cause there’s end of life, but [00:11:00] also there’s, divorce, which is- 

Marni Blank: It’s just l- it’s, yeah, it’s just planning. It’s just planning- Yeah

ahead. It’s making sure that you are covered if something is to happen. Because we just don’t know what the future is gonna bring in. So I would say for people who are considering divorce or in the process of divorce, you don’t need to wait until that final paperwork is complete to make decisions about this other.

So for instance, with the healthcare proxy that we’re talking about, in most states, it does not require an attorney to draft it or a more than two witnesses typically. Sometimes it can require a notary, but these are simple documents that you can get on your gover- on your state government’s website. You can have an attorney draft it.

But if you’re thinking about who you want to be in these roles, that is a very personal decision, and if you no longer feel comfortable with the person that is named or, by default, let’s say that your divorce hasn’t gone through yet, and you don’t have a healthcare proxy, your partner your spouse is still [00:12:00] the person who would be responsible for making those medical decisions for you.

And therefore, if you want to take matters into your own hands, I think the beauty of this is it’s, it is really about intentional. I intentionally want the, the right people to be making the most important decisions for me. And so it’s thinking about w- who else in your life first and foremost trust.

Who do I really trust? Who can I have a conversation with about my wishes and values, and that will respect those wishes and values? It doesn’t mean they need to have the same wishes and values as you, but it just means that they understand yours and that they will respect them. It means that someone who is readily available by phone or by text.

It doesn’t mean they need to live down the street, doesn’t need to be a neighbor. It could be a friend out of state. But is it someone who’s gonna pick up the call, or is it, are they gonna let it go to voicemail? And it’s someone who can make important decisions under a stressful situation.

I have wonderful people in my life that if it was a stressful situation, they might panic. They might not be the clear-headed [00:13:00] person. So who are you putting in that role who can advocate for you on your behalf, who can ask follow-up questions with medical staff, and who can make a clear decision under pressure?

Kate Anthony: Other things besides, look, we’ve been talking about the healthcare proxy. What, if we can just go down a, the, the checklist that you have on your website that we’re gonna have everyone download for sure. But what are some other things that are on that checklist that people should be thinking about during divorce that they just literally might not be thinking about?

Marni Blank: If you have a will or trust in place, making sure that those right, the beneficiaries are who you would want them to be, who is the executor or the trustee, the person in charge of handling the estate. A power of attorney is a document that protects you while you’re alive. And it’s the same as a healthcare proxy in that if something were to [00:14:00] happen to you and there was a financial situation that needed to be taken care of, so if you needed someone to pay your rent for you, to pay the medical bills, if you were in the middle of closing on a house and that, that was still…

Anything that involves money or assets that they would be able to handle on your behalf. That is a power of attorney, and that’s someone you can name, so that if something were to happen, it doesn’t have to go to court or, no one would be able to access your account. So that, that’s important.

The other things I would think about that a lot of people don’t are who has access to, that information that lives in your head that we don’t think about. We walk around every day living our lives. I know who has the keys to my apartment. I know who my dog walker is and, the vet information.

But I think, it’s taking inventory of what do we take for granted that we’re doing every day, and making sure it’s documented somewhere so that if someone needed to step in and help support us, that we knew what to do. In the dissolving of [00:15:00] a relationship, oftentimes in a relationship, there is a divide and conquer of daily activities, of tasks, of things we do, and sometimes that needs to be reworked, when you are starting anew.

So it’s really thinking about what are you doing every day. And the last thing I would say that’s really important that people think about is digital, your digital legacy and having certain contacts. Again, this is who’s able to access your information. Updating your legacy contact on your iPhone so that someone has access to, o- oftentimes when we have partners, they know how to get into our computer or our phone, and if something were to happen, they’d have acc- but who else could help if- 

And who else would have legal access? 

Kate Anthony: And also, like, changing your password so that should things go awry- Great. Yes … they don’t, they no longer have access, right? That’s- 

Marni Blank: Totally 

Kate Anthony: … That’s important, right? In divorce, right? If y- if your s- if your spouse has all your passwords and maybe you don’t want them to have those [00:16:00] anymore, you should change them.

Marni Blank: Absolutely. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. And als- I was thinking that, oh my God. So because we are, like, digital adults I use a password vault, like a digital password vault. I use LastPass, right? It just occurred to me that nobody has my LastPass password, right? Which would be very important for someone to be able to then take over and help, manage my digital life.

My mother could not, for the life of her, figure out how to do something like that. So she literally has… I won’t tell, I won’t s- you know, whatever, but it’s a note on her phone that has all… And it is chaos. It is chaos. And that’s gonna be my job, and maybe I should figure that out sooner th- rather than later, right?

Maybe I should be helping her organize it, or at least organize it for myself so [00:17:00] that when I’m in grief, I’m not full of the chaos dealing with the chaos, right? 

Marni Blank: It’s completely what’s fascinating… our parents are doing these things to help us, right? She did, she told you about that because she knew that it was important to keep that information somewhere, just not necessarily the right way.

I’ll say that my father did this thing where he sent, in the snail mail, through the regular mail, he sent my sister a list of his passwords with some Xs where certain things should be, and he sent me the usernames. And he was like, “You’ll know what it means.” But also, again, so sweet, so thoughtful.

He was trying to be smart about it. It’s not the best way to do it, and we have since set him up with a password manager. So best laid plans, but yes, I, I- … and the, the other thing about, the organizing is, yeah, it is a gift to you. Like you said, when there, in any moment of grief, it doesn’t need to be a death.

It can be, There is a, there’s an actual grief response, [00:18:00] a fog response when, It’s a neurological actual thing that happens when we are going through grief, and so that could be going through a divorce and things are just, we’re just not functioning at full capacity or going through a death.

These are all deaths in different capacities. We’re not remembering. We could’ve known, our passwords right and left, and suddenly can’t remember them or someone else’s. And so it is really important. Whatever we can do when we’re healthy and prepared is better for when we’re in a moment where we just need that extra little help and organization.

Kate Anthony: Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, changing the passwords, right? If you’re getting divorced, certainly in a high t- in a high-conflict situation, if you have everything behind a password manager, change the master password to that so that- You’re protected in that way. 

Marni Blank: It’s also just checking on the deeds to the properties.

That should be something that your attorney handles in the divorce, [00:19:00] depending on who gets what. But again, you just wanna make sure that every I and T are g- are dotted and crossed, Yeah … because if someone else’s name is on it accidentally, that can cause problems. 

Kate Anthony: That can… exactly. W- I guess it’s like getting divorced on the one hand is a really overwhelming time to start thinking about or to, rethink or whatever, all of your end of life stuff.

Also, it’s a good time you’re reworking everything anyway. A lot of people feel like they don’t really wanna think about end of life stuff, like they’re starting a new life. They’re… what do you, how do you help people manage that I’m starting a new chapter, and I’m thinking about the end,” and, right?

It’s, you’re stuck in this overwhelming kind of no man’s land, and you’re ready to move forward. But yet we’re also having to have these other hard conversations. 

Marni Blank: None of it is easy, and the timing is never right. I will say that it’s very normal to not wanna about, think about these [00:20:00] topics or to procrastinate on them.

No one… N- It is a really hard thought exercise to think about all the ways in which no one n- no one is really prepared. And what I like to reframe it as, it is a gift to plan ahead. It is a gift for you to plan ahead because just like I do better every year when I… Every year, my, I declutter my apartment.

I spend the, the time be- between Christmas and New Year’s, I declutter. It makes me feel good. Same with getting your digital life organized. And so I think that it’s just like another life adult thing. In terms of planning in advance, when we do the thing, it takes up less brain space.

When it’s decluttered, when we’ve thought about it and made choices, it’s no longer hanging over our heads. The more that we’re doing it, whether you have children or not, it is a gift for whoever is ending up having to help support you. And it really also is just taking inventory of where your life is.

You, there have [00:21:00] been a lot of changes if you’ve gone through divorce, and so you are. You’re starting a new chapter, and it’s a beautiful time in which you get to reshape what the next chapter looks like. And if you’re thinking about it with that extra layer of, “I don’t have forever; I have now. I have now to plan my life and steer the ship in my direction.

What do I want my legacy to look like? How do I wanna be remembered? If I’m in my 40s and I have, let’s say, 40 good summers left, how do I wanna spend my summers? Do I wanna take the trip Do I want, or do I wanna be in the job that I’ve really disliked and I’ve been thinking about getting rid of for five years and I’m just staying in it?

Am I scrolling on my phone or am I learning mahjong? I don’t know, but, it’s getting to be intentional about how you spend your time because you know that is limited. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Marni Blank: We take more advantage of our space and our time. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. What are some of the maybe mistakes or sort of trip-ups that you’ve seen working with people a- as a mediator [00:22:00] too, right?

The questions that they’re not, people are not asking or that mediators aren’t necessarily putting into the space that are important on this level. 

Marni Blank: I think that it’s not having the important conversations. It really all comes back to the communication, especially within families, whether it’s planning for yourself or having those conversations with your parents.

I know so many very smart, educated people who have their own planning in place and are too scared to have the conversation with their parent about what they want, what their wishes are. And that, again it’s really hard because you don’t wanna get to the end and then realize you don’t have any of their information or you don’t know what their wishes are.

Or now, talk about decision fatigue, that it’s all on you to figure out instead of have- having had those conversations. When you’re talking about, the decision, whether you would be able to or your ex-husband in terms of if your mother is on life-sustaining treatment, having that conversation, does she want to be on life [00:23:00] sust- do you wanna be on life-sustaining treatment?

Do are there religious, things that we need to be thinking about here? Do you want a funeral? Do you want a celebration of life? Do you want cremation or do you want a traditional burial?

The more that we’re having these conversations, and people are just so scared because they don’t wanna be thought of as being greedy.

They don’t want to feel like, I just wanna know if I’m inheriting from you or not,” which is, it’s really just, “I’m nervous that I’m not gonna show up for you well. I just need the information, to know.” And it also helps the sibling dynamics or other family dynamics of who’s showing up and how are people participating?

And so from the mediator’s hat, the more that families or loved ones… And again, many people aren’t just relying on their biological family. Many people have really beautiful and vibrant chosen families that they’re relying on for all of these things. And again, the, the more that we’re talking about these, these issues and asking what other people are doing, it becomes a [00:24:00] little more normalized and not in the shadows.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like, like we’ve been talking about, these are really… It’s like they’re heavy topics, but they do release a burden later. And I know, my, like I said, my mom is 85, and she has a chronic form of leukemia, so she’s been living with this for- ov- well over a decade.

But, she’s 85, living with cancer, and so this is a, it’s a very real thing, and it becomes a little bit more difficult. And she is talking about this stuff all the time. And I notice myself just, I don’t wanna talk oh my God, stop. She’s constantly talk- saying when I die, are you…

Ma- make sure that you do this,” or, “You know that’s valuable, right?” We’ve very few valuable things in our family, but she’s “That one, that thing is very valuable. Make sure that, I just wanna make sure you know that, so when I die, you don’t…” And I find myself being like, “Oh my God, Mom, stop.”

Like we’re just [00:25:00] sitting around having coffee. Can you not? Yet it’s important, right? And it’s like, and you’re getting divorced y- and having these conversations and maybe with adult children. And but also you’re dealing, maybe dealing with younger children, and you’re not gonna obviously have these necessarily have these conversations with your younger children.

But again, things that you have to think about in really awkward times that you don’t really want to, but that are important, right? 

Marni Blank: I think that you really nailed it there in that there is sometimes a disconnect where, the the aging parent wants to talk about it and the adult child doesn’t wanna talk about it.

It reminds them of mortality. And then sometimes it’s the adult child who doesn’t want to bring up mortality with an aging parent. So sometimes it’s both, but sometimes both of them wanna talk about it, they just don’t know how. But you’re right about this messy middle, the sandwich generation of people, especially women, who are the primary caregivers in, in, aging parents [00:26:00] certainly.

But, dealing with younger children, even adult children quite honestly, and aging parents, it’s this messy middle where are you also just finding time for yourself and taking care of yourself. And I think that one of the main things I see is that when people are caring for their aging parent, caring for the children, they forget to care for themselves, and that’s why having, those documents in place.

What happens if you are sick? I- if you don’t have a plan in place, then the people that you love who you are caring for as the caregiver, what’s gonna happen to them? And that is why planning is so important, why having these conversations. And also what you were saying, the other thing is making sure, guardianship when you’re going through a divorce.

Okay, maybe originally, obviously the spouse would, or not obviously, in many cases the spouse would be the guardian of the child, sometimes not, but perhaps your spouse’s extended family were gonna be the backup. Maybe you don’t want that anymore. So again, it’s this revisiting and it has to be negotiated, I’m [00:27:00] sure, between both parties about, okay, fine, if something happened to one or both of us, who who is going to care for them?

But I did wanna say one thing about making it light or lighter. It doesn’t all have to be doom and gloom when you’re having these conversations, even, with yourself or with an aging parent. I’ll bring up my dad’s example again where He’s, he was a dentist, he’s also an artist. He has hundreds of paintings in the basement.

And, a constant conversation we have and I can tell you b- based on what I do for work, we have these conversations all the time. Sure. My whole family is now very comfortable having the conversation. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Marni Blank: But we’re like, what… My sister and I are like, “You know what? What are we gonna do with all of these?”

We both live in New York City apartments, you have hundreds of paintings in the basement. What are we gonna do with them? A li- a logistical question. Because it also is something that brought him joy for his whole life. And so we have decided as a family that anyone who comes to the funeral for him gets to walk away with a painting.

Kate Anthony: Oh, I love 

Marni Blank: that. And that’s something [00:28:00] where it, it deals with legacy. It’s also a practical thing that we need to figure out, but it’s also beautiful. And, we joke about it, but that’s just one way in which it doesn’t… It can be creating joy of things, and of memories and of, important parts of ours that we can share with other people.

Kate Anthony: I love that. I love that. I love… And you’re lucky that they’re paintings. For m- with… My mother is a, a theater director, and so hers are she has physical binders of every play she’s ever directed with all of her notes- 

Marni Blank: Wow … 

Kate Anthony: in a closet, and it’s And I, she said, “This is my legacy. I don’t want you to just throw it away.”

And I’m like what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do with it?” But actually, maybe that’s a conversation we need to have. What am I supposed to do with that? ‘Cause I’m, I don’t… maybe at her funeral, people will want to take a binder of her notes. I don’t know. 

Marni Blank: Yeah. Maybe it can be digitized.

Maybe there is a- that’s what… Yeah, exactly. Yeah … like a, a Broadway, organization [00:29:00] that this is- Yeah … historical material that, that maybe it’s, part of a museum- 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Oh my God … 

Marni Blank: a piece. Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. I know that there are theaters that would probably want them, but yeah, there’s, those are all the things.

Marni Blank: All the, the things are a, a big thing that people have to deal with. Ugh. What to do with things. 

Kate Anthony: Yes. Yes. Marni, this has been a really great conversation. Is there anything that you feel like we didn’t touch on? 

Marni Blank: It’s normal to be wary about this, especially when also going through another life milestone that you are grappling with.

But something, starting with something small is better than nothing at all. And by just starting this process, it doesn’t have to be done in a day or a week, but you can just start to gather important information and keep it in a place that someone can access if they need it, and getting to really think about these things.

It really is, again, about intentionality and making the best choices that are right for you right now. It doesn’t have to be a forever thing. Treating it like anything else. It’s just part of adulting that we have to do. [00:30:00] But we can make it fun. 

Kate Anthony: So annoying. So speaking of making it fun, you actually have a planner that you are coming out with, right?

It’s you’re collecting a wait- Yes … a waiting list for it, and then you also have the free downloads on your website. Can you tell everyone where to find all of that, and a little bit about this planner and how it differs maybe from the free stuff, whatever. Yeah. 

Marni Blank: Yes. For the planner, it’s something that I created because I wanted my parents to fill it out.

It was a, “Hey, I f- I created this. Would you mind trying it out?” And both my parents have filled it out, and that is the best gift they could have given me- Yeah … that I have all of their information now. But it’s for myself too. I filled it out as well. And so I had created a digital version. It had about 3,000 downloads, and I was like, you know what?

I actually really want something tangible. It’s great to have a, a digital version, and there’s a new updated digital version. But having something tangible, there’s just something special about it And so I am in [00:31:00] final design and production, and it should come out end of the summer, early fall.

But I have a wait list for theplanwellorganizer.com. And what’s gonna be great about it is that every month I’m gonna be having a, a Zoom where people can sit and have an accountability hour so that they can come in, work with other people, and get their organizing under control.

And then on my website, I have some free downloads of getting all of your important documents into, one place. So it has a list of all of your digital assets, all of your paper assets, and getting everything organized. So you can start there. 

Kate Anthony: And g- r- what’s the 

Marni Blank: URL? Beginwiththeend.co. Not com, .co, and you can get all of the, the free downloads on there.

Kate Anthony: Great, and everything will be linked in the show notes. And beginwiththeend.co is your website. That’s where you can find all of the things. Marnie, you’ve given me personally at least a lot to think about. And I’m really glad we had this conversation. I know it’s been really enlightening for [00:32:00] a lot of people, so thank you so much for coming on.

Marni Blank: Thanks, Kate.