Kate Anthony: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back. If you’re watching this on YouTube or if you end up on Instagram and watching reels that are cut from this, you might notice I have a new background, and it’s not ’cause I moved again. I actually had to flip my office around. I used to have my desk basically I was sitting over there.

I had my desk in the middle of the room, and then the wall was behind me. But I took up a hobby and I started sewing. As you can see my sewing machine over here, and then this flips out to be my cutting table. Anyway, why do you care? The only reason I’m telling you about this is that I had to reconfigure my entire office to accommodate the space that I actually needed for sewing, ’cause my desk is big and it was in the middle of the room, and this is a pretty small room.

But the reason I’m telling you about it is because I’ve [00:01:00] really, literally never in my life had a hobby. It’s been one of those weird things where I think because I didn’t know myself, because I didn’t really… as a child or, as a young adult through middle age, up until middle age, I just didn’t…

I– There was nothing that I– that excited me, or I was always busy with other things. And one of the things that happened when I married Ethan is that, I always said that I was never gonna marry someone who didn’t enhance my life. I wasn’t gonna be in a relationship with somebody who didn’t add something to my life.

And by the same token, I feel like what I’ve experienced in being with Ethan is that he takes so much off of my plate. I remember going on a vacation. We went on a trip to up to Bodega Bay. We have friends who have a house up in Bodega Bay, and we went up there for the weekend. We were, gonna leave that morning or whatever, and we’re sitting around having coffee, and [00:02:00] Ethan goes into the shower, and he comes back into the room and he’s he has stripped the bed. He has packed for both of us. He had also unpacked for me when we got there, and he had stripped the bed and organized everything and set my stuff out so that I could pack it more easily, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember looking at my friend Emily and being like, “I have so much more space.”

I– He does things like this and I can just relax or create, right? And this is what this sewing hobby evolved from for me, was that I just suddenly have space in my life. My son is grown up. He’s in college. He’s living up in LA. I’m in San Diego. I don’t have hordes of teenage boys in my house twenty-four/seven now, but I also live in a home where I share all responsibilities, if I’m honest Ethan does more of the [00:03:00] housework than I will probably ever do.

He scoops the litter every morning. He, does the yard work. He does the dishes. He does so much that I have all this fucking space to create. And it opened up this like, “I don’t know, I wanna try sewing,” which is bizarre. I don’t know where it came from, but I did. I started taking a class, and I love it, and now I have a whole sewing room that I had to fit into my office.

So here we are. Anyway, all that to say, that’s the kind of thing That is possible on the other side of this for you. If you meet somebody, and if they, are your match and also you… It’s also about being alone or with someone who doesn’t take all, suck all the fucking energy out of your life. So anyway, long story short, I rearranged my office to accommodate my hobby.

And I wanted to, just to acknowledge that for those of you who might be looking and being like, “Where the hell is she?” [00:04:00] And for those of you listening, you can enjoy the story too. All right, I wanna get into today’s episode because a woman wrote to me recently about something that I felt yeah, this is a really good topic for an episode.

I’m not gonna tell you her story because, that’s private, that’s hers, but the real question underneath it was essentially, “Why am I suddenly missing the person that I worked so hard to leave?” So this particular woman had spent years knowing her marriage wasn’t working, years living with behaviors that r- really hurt her, and years thinking about leaving, and then she did, and she knew without a doubt that she’d made the right decision.

She built a new life, she had years of evidence for why staying had become absolutely impossible for her. And then several months later, she started missing him. She didn’t forget what happened, right? She didn’t suddenly start believing that the marriage had been wonderful, but she just started missing him and feeling softer towards him and feeling really attracted to him again.[00:05:00] 

And then she started fantasizing about a reconciliation that intellectually she knew wasn’t possible, and that totally freaked her out. Because when you’ve spent years trying to get yourself to leave a painful relationship, one of the things that you imagine is that leaving might make everything in your life make sense.

And you think there’s gonna be a point where you cross this invisible line and suddenly “Oh yeah. Okay, this is it,” right? You might be devastated, you might be angry. Maybe you’re relieved, but you’re certain. And then you’re six months out, and you’re crying in your kitchen because he smiled at you at soccer practice, and suddenly some part of you wants your family back.

And that can seriously fuck with your head, especially if you were the one who initiated the divorce, especially if everyone around you watched you claw your way out, and if [00:06:00] you’ve spent thousands of dollars on lawyers, moved to a new house, told your children, “This is the new reality,” because now the thought is, “Holy shit, what is wrong with me?”

Let me just say this Nothing. Nothing is wrong with you. What that, that is describing, it might be grief, another layer of grief. I talk all the time about how the fucking layers of grief never stop. They just never stop unfolding. It might be an attachment, right? That y- this is… You’ve been with this person for 20 years, 30 years.

Yeah, you’re attached to them. And if the relationship was emotionally abusive, coercive, controlling highly unpredictable, or ran on cycles of cruelty followed by tenderness, there also might be another mechanism at work, which is a trauma bond So I want to explain this carefully because the term gets thrown around constantly online and often gets reduced to you’re [00:07:00] addicted to your abuser, and I think there’s some truth to that.

But I also think I don’t want to make people feel stupid or weak or whatever for still feeling attached to someone who hurt them. The, the more useful thing to understand is what happens with intermittent reinforcement. So intermittent reinforcement is when a reward comes unpredictably. Sometimes you get warmth, sometimes you get contempt, then you get affection, then withdrawal.

Then he tells you’re the love of his life. Then he won’t speak to you for three days. Sometimes sex feels connected and intimate, and sometimes you feel completely unwanted. And then he apologizes and seems to understand everything. Then two weeks later, the same shit happens again. So the unpredictability is actually the pattern.

And because our brains tend to work really hard [00:08:00] for unpredictable rewards, right? We get sucked into that pattern. It’s like a slot machine, right? If you put a dollar, put in a dollar and lost every single time, you probably wouldn’t do it again after maybe three or four times. But you don’t lose every single time.

Sometimes the lights flash, and you win twenty dollars. Sometimes you win two hundred, and you never know which pull is going to be the one to pay off. And it’s the uncertainty that keeps you engaged. It’s un-the uncertainty of where the next dopamine hit is going to come from. So obviously, your marriage is not a slot machine.

Your attachment to another human being is infinitely more complicated than that. But it’s the reinforcement mechanism that matters. So if the relationship repeatedly moved through distress, rupture, relief, reconnection, hope, and then distress again, your body can become [00:09:00] deeply accustomed to that cycle.

Your nervous system becomes accustomed to that cycle, and the relief feels enormous precisely because the distress came first. If he’s been cruel for three days and then he walks into the kitchen and wraps his arms around you saying he loves you and doesn’t want to fight anymore, the relief is intoxicating You think there he is.

That’s my husband. That’s our relationship. We’re okay. And if you’ve been starved for warmth or reassurance or relatively small moments of connection, these small moments can feel huge. This is where the breadcrumbs start to feel like big, giant chocolate cakes. So that’s part of what can make these relationships so difficult to leave emotionally, even when you rationally know that the relationship is harming you, ’cause leaving doesn’t immediately undo that [00:10:00] conditioning.

You remove yourself from the house before your brain and body and nervous system have caught up to the fact that the cycle is over, which means separation can sometimes feel like withdrawal. There’s that addictive piece. You might find yourself obsessively thinking about him, checking your phone, wanting to hear from him, feeling a rush when his name pops up, getting crushed when he doesn’t respond, remembering the highs far more vividly than the lows.

We love to do that. This is why people keep notes in their notes app on their phone of all the low times, all the bad times, so that they can reread them when their brains start doing this gymnastics on them. We want one more conversation. We want one more hug. We want one more good interaction ’cause we know it’s there.

We know it’s there, right? It’s been dangled. It’s been a carrot on the stick for decades. You want one more sign that he still cares, that he actually fucking misses you, and then you get really fucking [00:11:00] furious with yourself afterwards ’cause you know exactly what this relationship cost you. This is why just telling yourself, “He was terrible.

Stop missing him,” like that doesn’t work. Your logical brain is really clear, but the, your attachment system is doing something completely different. And if you have children together, it gets more complicated because you’re not necessarily getting like the cr- clean break. You don’t get to go no contact.

All the advice about breaking these attachments is to go no contact. Guess what? You have kids, you may not get that you’re texting about school stuff. You see each other at sporting events. You’ve got parent-teacher conferences. You’re coordinating driving. You’ve got multiple kids. You’ve got to get three kids to three different activities in different areas of town at the same time.

You’re coordinating that with somebody, hopefully. You’re both showing up for birthdays and graduations, maybe doctor’s appointments, right? Maybe this isn’t [00:12:00] a high-conflict divorce. Maybe you’re both actually doing your best to see each other and to coordinate and to work together.

And when you do that, every time you start moving away emotionally, there he is again. And sometimes he’s awful. Sometimes, he’ll send something nasty through attorneys, and then you’re like, “Yep, that’s it. That’s why I left.” And then four days later, each– him at, your kid’s game, and he’s funny, and he looks good.

He’s charming. He wants to know, make sure you got home safely and there goes your brain. Maybe he’s changing. Is he changing? Is he different now? Maybe this could have been different. Oh my God, I– I did this a lot when I saw my ex in a new relationship, and he was so much nicer to her than he had ever been to me or than he had been to me in ten years.

And then I’m like, “Maybe it was me all along.” Maybe oh, if he’s was– he’s capable of being this person maybe [00:13:00] we could try to make this work. Maybe now that we’re apart he finally gets it, and we can try again and do this another way, right? And that maybe, oh my God, is so powerful.

It’s intoxicating, especially if the maybe was what kept you in your marriage for so long. Maybe this therapist will get through to him. Maybe after this crisis he’ll wake up. Maybe when the kids are older. Maybe now that I’ve left, he finally gets it. And hope, maybe, is the thing that keeps hope alive, and hope is– can be one of the hardest parts of the relationship to let go of.

And sometimes the separation can temporarily feed it, right? Because when you’re no longer living together, the worst parts are a little bit less visible. You’re not cleaning up after him. You’re not navigating his moods every single day. You’re not lying in bed wondering why he hasn’t spoken to you for three days.

You aren’t fighting about money at ten thirty at night. You see him for twelve minutes in the school parking lot, and for those twelve minutes, you get the edited version of him where he’s charming, and he smells good, [00:14:00] and he asks about your day, and he’s being a lovely dad, and then your nervous system responds to what is happening in those twelve minutes The problem comes when we take 12 minutes of information and use it to reconsider 20 years of data.

So this is where I want you to slow down, because missing someone is information about your emotional experience. That doesn’t necessarily mean that anything about the relationship has changed. So those are separate things. I miss him. Okay, that is real. I want him. Okay, also real. I feel love for him. Also real.

He’s now capable of sustaining the kind of relationship that I need. Really? What’s your evidence for that? That’s where we return to the pattern. That’s where you get out your notes, and you start to remember no.” You know how I talk about patterns all the time because patterns tell us more than [00:15:00] moments.

Anybody can be kind for an afternoon. Anybody can be thoughtful during a custody exchange. You’d think it wouldn’t be so hard, right? Really, people can do that. Anybody can send a lovely text or cry, apologize I finally understand. But what happens over time? What happens when he doesn’t get what he wants?

What happens when you disagree? What happens during negotiations when a boundary inconveniences him, when you stop accommodating him? All of that is information, and if this was a coercive, controlling, or emotionally abusive relationship, be particularly careful about mistaking renewed access or renewed charm for actual transformation Like you have seen intermittently that he is actually capable of charm or intimacy or whatever intermittently.

[00:16:00] You already have that information. But separation can change behavior for all kinds of reasons, right? Maybe he wants you back. Maybe he wants to keep you emotionally engaged. Maybe he wants something in the divorce. Maybe he genuinely misses you ’cause you’re fucking kickass, and maybe he’s calmer because you’re no longer living together.

All of those things can be true without meaning that the underlying relationship dynamic has fundamentally changed. And sometimes you might discover that you actually like him much better when he’s no longer your husband. That is exactly what happened to me. When we were first separated and living together, we started getting along great, and it was like all the bad parts of our relationship disappeared, and all the good stuff rose to the top.

And I was like, “Oh okay. So we can do this?” And he was like no. It’s because we’re not– we’re no longer trying to get our emotional needs met from each other that we are getting along,” [00:17:00] right? He was the one who was like, “This doesn’t mean that we should be back together. It actually enforces the idea that we should be apart, that we’re better off not married.”

And he was right. He was absolutely right. It wasn’t that we were no longer trying to get our emotional needs met from each other; it was that he was no longer trying to get his emotional needs met from me and then abusing me when he couldn’t do it ’cause he was off now getting them met somewhere else, but doesn’t matter.

It’s still the same. I liked him better when he wasn’t my husband. I still like him better not as my husband. So distance, emotional distance can remove some of the friction. You start seeing each other in smaller doses, fewer opportunities for conflict, and that is gonna make some parts of your relationship more pleasant.

Your interactions are gonna be more pleasant, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that the marriage should be workable or was workable. That’s the data. That’s the information. Just because we’re getting along better [00:18:00] or we feel more, Feelings aren’t facts. Data. We need data

So there’s another part of this that I think [00:19:00] keeps a lot of women emotionally connected long after they leave, and that’s that you’re still waiting for him to finally understand, for him to finally acknowledge what happened, right? You want him to say, “I see what I did. I understand why you left. I understand how much I hurt you.

You weren’t asking for too much. I should have treated you differently.” And when that acknowledgement never comes, a part of you keeps circling the relationship. You don’t have closure. It feels unfinished. There is still a case that you’re trying to prove. There’s still this verdict that you want.

There’s justice. You want him to confirm that your experience was real, and reconciliation can sneak into that fantasy. Because in the fantasy, he finally gets it. He changes. He chooses you. He becomes the person that you are waiting for. He’s like the knight in shining armor who comes and resks- rescues you from the pain of having been married to him.

Whoa , [00:20:00] right? Mind fuck. But the whole story gets rewritten. So now you weren’t discarded. You weren’t foolish for believing in him. The 20 years meant what you thought they meant. All of that pain eventually led somewhere, and that is a powerful fantasy. And by the way, we see that played out all the time in rom-coms.

The guy’s a dick, and then he realizes “Oh my God, actually, I love her.” I think it’s really important to understand that sometimes when you think you want the man back, what you actually want is a different ending You want the relationship redeemed. You want the years redeemed. You want the hope redeemed.

You want him to become the person who would make staying have made sense. And there is so much grief in accepting that he may never become that person. But that grief is not the same thing as evidence that you should reopen the relationship. So if you’re seriously considering [00:21:00] reconciliation, look for change that has a footprint, ’cause real change is visible over time.

There’s accountability without you dragging it out of him. There’s curiosity about your experience. There’s respect for boundaries, even when those boundaries, when he doesn’t like ’em. There’s consistent behavior when there is no reward. There’s a willingness to tolerate discomfort without punishing you for it.

And if you’re dealing with coercive control or abuse, this is the place where I would strongly encourage you to get qualified professional support before making a decision about reconciliation or believing in your fantasy of reconciliation. ‘Cause chemistry can be a real fucking powerful intoxicant.

But patterns take time to evaluate. There’s another myth buried in all of this, which, I think is true for many women, right? But this idea that you already grieved the marriage before you left, yeah, I think we get [00:22:00] that. I think we really do. We spend so much gri- time grieving the relationship before we leave that sometimes we think that there’s no more left when we get out.

We’re just happy. We’re just excited, right? And there is absolutely grief inside of a dying marriage. You grieve every birthday that gets ruined, every conversation that goes nowhere, every anniversary where you realize nothing has changed. But there are some losses that you actually can’t grieve until they happen.

And sometimes we can get caught up in the joy and the… I know for me, I was so excited to be out. I w- I felt free. I was like, “Oh, my God, yes.” And then later, it’s like the waves just started to come back. You can’t l- you can’t fully grieve losing Christmas morning with your kids until Christmas morning arrives and they’re at their dad’s house.

You can’t fully grieve selling the family home while you’re still living in it. You can’t fully grieve being divorced unt- while you’re still married. There’s [00:23:00] certainly grief before leaving, and then there’s grief after. And sometimes the second wave doesn’t even hit for months and months. Because like I said, the beginning of separation first of all, it can be just pure logistics, right?

Lawyers, and the houses, and the money, and the forms, and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And sometimes it’s I’m excited, there was a woman on our retreat who was just nothing but excited. She was fucking happy. She had an entirely new identity. She had just come out. So she was like, “Oh my God, I’m gay,” and “Having a damn good time doing it.” She’s like, “Am I avoiding something?” And I’m like, “Maybe, but also you get to be joyous and free. You get to enjoy this new thing, but just watch. Watch for how much of it is avoidance versus actual pure joy. Watch what happens in your dreams, like where do your dreams start to go, ‘Hello?'”

And that’s what sort of happened to me, was that I was so [00:24:00] excited and exuberant and free, and then the dreams started, and I would wake up being like, “What the fuck? What the fuck is wrong with me? I was so happy to be free.” I think sometimes you interpret that, like those dreams or the grief that comes in later, as m- as moving backwards, right?

You’re like, “Wait a minute, I was moving forward and now this…” Eh, maybe you just finally have enough room to feel something that you couldn’t feel while you were in it or getting yourself out. When your nervous system starts to relax, shit is safe enough. You’re you’re safe to feel again.

And that’s why I want you to be really careful about treating pain as directional information. So pain, if you start grief- start this new grief process, then you’re like, “Where did that come from?” It doesn’t necessarily mean go back. If you’re like longing for him and you see him and you’re like, “Damn, he’s hot.

I want him,” or there’s grief, none of that automatically means go back. [00:25:00] Those feelings deserve attention. They don’t deserve unilateral control over your decisions, but they deserve attention for sure. They’re information. Again, they’re not directions. So what do you do when the romanticizing starts?

First of all, don’t panic. It’s totally fucking normal. Trust me. If there are a thousand of you listening to this right now, I bet you’re all nodding your heads. So just know if you’re nodding your head right now, so are thousands of other women. So there you have it. You don’t have to turn every feeling into an identity crisis, right?

You get to have feelings. You get to miss him today. You miss him today. Okay. You can survive missing him. You can miss the good parts of him, by the way. You can miss the good shit. You don’t have to act on it, and you don’t have to force yourself to hate him in order to stay gone, right? ‘Cause that’s another trap.

Anger isn’t the only thing that keeps you safe. When the anger starts to fade, women get [00:26:00] scared “Oh, God, if I don’t hate him anymore, then maybe I’m gonna go back. What’s gonna keep me from going back?” Your memory, your judgment, your standards, your evidence, right? You don’t need to hate him to make a sound decision to stay away from him.

You need access to the whole story, memories of the whole story. And when nostalgia starts editing that story, come back to the record. Get out that notes app and remind yourself. You’ve been documenting incidents for a while. Keep them. Look at them, not to torture yourself, but to restore yourself contextually, ’cause loneliness and grief are terrible historians.

Terrible, right? Nostalgia edits, but your record Your documentation, your notes app, whatever it is, that, that is your memory. You might, if you don’t have that, create one, a very simple relationship reality document. Write down what actually [00:27:00] made you leave, the concrete behaviors. What happened repeatedly?

How did conflict work? What happened when you expressed a need? What promises were made over and over again, and which were actually sustained? What happened when you said no? What did your body feel like before he walked in the door, before you walked in the door? And when your fantasies hit, you’ll have something to return to.

By the way, Britt Frank, she wrote a wonderful book called The Science of Stuck. Britt also recommends doing this for the good times. All those really good times, what was actually also going on under the surface, right? You’re gonna look at pictures of your favorite vacation, and you’re gonna romanticize it, and you’re gonna be like, “Oh my God,” “we had the best time when we were on vacation together.”

But maybe you remind yourself that actually, that night he was in the bathroom texting another woman while you thought you were having this wonderful vacation. [00:28:00] Or, oh wait, that night at dinner we had a really huge fight. This was one moment, this one fantasy, like we love to edit these little moments out.

We were so close and we were so intimate, but oh, actually, he was cheating on me. So when the fantasy hits, you wanna have something to return to, not just the highlight reel, right? You need the whole thing. Pay attention to what you do when the craving for connection shows up. You miss him, then you text him.

You feel sad, you reach out You want one more conversation about what happened. You want reassurance. You want him to miss you. You want him to say things he’s never said, and then maybe you feel exposed afterwards. Maybe he rejects you. Maybe he gives you just enough warmth to draw you back in, right?

Maybe the exchange turns hostile, and then you spend the next three days analyzing every word, and all of a sudden, your whole fucking focus is back on this person. [00:29:00] This is what we do. Our whole lives have become so focused on this other person that it’s actually our… it is… it takes intentionality to refocus our energy away from them and back onto ourselves.

You are laying completely new neural pathways in that, especially if you have– there has been intermittent reinforcement, if you have been in a toxic or abusive relationship. The whole thing, you are hypervigilant about this person, and so all of your neural pathways are focused on him.

What’s he doing? What’s he gonna say? What’s he gonna do? Those are very strong neural pathways ’cause they’ve been connected for over 20 years probably. I think of neural pathways like little fibers in a rope. It’s like they, they lay one little fiber at a time, and then over time, all those fibers connected over and over again from [00:30:00] me to him.

Over time, you’ve got a really strong cable, a big, solid rope. And now you have to refocus your energy onto like– ’cause you’re automatically gonna go to him ’cause that’s where the neural pathways are. Oh, no, wait a minute. Intentionally remember, okay, refocus it on myself. What am I feeling? What do I remember?

What information is real? And you’re laying those little fibers one at a time, and eventually, you will have a strong connection to yourself and away from him, but it’s gonna take time, and it takes intentionality, and what it doesn’t take is beating yourself up about it. So if the things that you do are you start to have the feeling and then you wanna text him.

You miss him, you text him. You’re having a feeling, a, a good feeling towards him, and you wanna reach out or whatever, right? So let’s… [00:31:00] If you wanna send the emotional text, let’s send it somewhere else first. Put it in the Notes app. So create a new structure To remind yourself to shift the focus.

So put it in your notes app, send it to a friend, take it to therapy, take it to your coach. Wait. And if there’s something logistical that needs to be communicated, send the logistical piece. BIFF it. Brief, informative, friendly, firm. That’s it. You don’t need to turn your ex into the person who helps you process losing your ex, ’cause that’s ultimately insane.

I’m not calling you crazy. I’m just saying , right? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, especially if the old attachment style involved you repeatedly going to him for relief from pain that he also helped create, right? That’s the definition, and that’s one of the loops that you are trying to interrupt for yourself.

And that [00:32:00] interrupting can feel uncomfortable. It can feel really empty and lonely. It’s like I don’t have the thing that I’ve always turned to make myself feel better. But did he really make you feel better? And so this is just more information. You’re building something unfamiliar, which is turning to yourself or turning to friends or turning to a group.

You’re building a life where pain doesn’t have to be followed by reconciliation with the person who caused it. You’re building a life where you can miss someone and still choose yourself, and that’s really the important crux to this. Here’s the thing. You may have loved him for a very long time, and you will always love some version of him.

You will. You’re gonna see him at your daughter’s graduation 10 years from now and feel something in your chest. But love doesn’t have to be evidence of compatibility. It doesn’t erase what happened or the reality. And one of the hardest parts of ending a marriage is [00:33:00] allowing multiple truths to exist in the same room.

I loved him. He hurt me. We had beautiful years. Some were unbearable. I miss him. I do not want my old life back. I wish he could have changed. I can’t build my future around waiting for change, right? I feel drawn to him today. I actually wanna have sex with him right now, right? I still know what I know. And for some of you, this is what it looks like when your brain and body are slowly coming out of an intermittent reinforcement cycle that shaped your relationship for so many years.

I promise you one thing. It will not always feel this intense, and your job is not to eradicate every feeling that you have for him. It’s just to stop letting every feeling become a referendum on your decision. You don’t need to de- decide your entire future or reimagine your entire life because you miss him on a Tuesday.

You just need to feel it, notice it, understand what might be driving it, and then come back to the pattern. [00:34:00] Come back to what you know You did not leave because of one bad day, right? You left because something in the relationship became unsustainable. Just remember the whole story, not just the part your heart is showing you today.

If you’re in this stage of divorce where you know why you left, but your emotions keep pulling you back into doubt, this is exactly the kind of thing that we work through in Phoenix Rising and in my retreats, Unbreakable. Because divorce isn’t just about court dates and custody schedules and settlement negotiations, right?

Sometimes it’s about understanding why you feel pulled back towards someone and learning how to interrupt the old loop and having people around you, women around you, who understand exactly what you’re going through. Phoenix Rising is my ongoing coaching community for women navigating divorce, high-conflict dynamics, custody, co-parenting, post-separation abuse, and rebuilding, and also helping women know [00:35:00] that exactly what they’re going through is totally normal all the time, and having a community to hold you through it.

So you can learn more about that at kateanthony.com. Listen I see you, I hear you, I get you, and whatever you’re feeling, I– trust me, so many women are feeling it too, and I hope this helped put some perspective and clarity on this really confusing thing that you might be feeling. Okay, talk to you next time.

Bye.