Kate Anthony: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back. We are here today to have a really important conversation about AI. With me today is Rena Rosewell. She is a CDC, certified divorce coach. She is a high-conflict divorce coach and Amazon best-selling author of AI Armor: Your Digital Defense Solution for Co-Parenting With a Narcissist.

She helps post-separation abuse survivors use AI strategically to communicate, document, and protect themselves when their ex weaponizes every single interaction, something we don’t know anything about on this show, do we? Welcome, Rena. I’m so glad to have you.

Rina Rosewell: They do that? What?

Kate Anthony: What?

Rina Rosewell: What?

Kate Anthony: Yeah, exactly. How

Rina Rosewell: can someone be like that?

Kate Anthony: Exactly. Exactly. We often ask. All right, so I’m gonna start at the beginning here. So you’re a divorce coach, obviously. But you have a [00:01:00] background as a translator and a copywriter, and you are not a tech expert. So how did someone with your background end up writing a book about AI? And why does your background actually make you better qualified than a tech expert?

To write this book.

Rina Rosewell: I’ve always wanted to write a book. Ever since I was little, it’s been like my dream, go to the library, take out all these books, and I wanted to be an author. And I stumbled on this topic, but the way I stumbled on AI was I, as in I’m a, as you said, I’m a divorce coach, but I’m pivoting from being a translator.

I’ve been translating for the last 15 years or so, and working as a copywriter. I trained as a copywriter, too. And in my copywriting, I was given AI texts to rewrite, that kind of thing, and I worked with AI. And I’m also, as you said I’m the… I have a a support group that I [00:02:00] run.

And you, do you’ve, Tina Swithin?

Kate Anthony: I know Tina very well, yes.

Rina Rosewell: Yes. Tina has a great book called The NARC Decoder.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And she’s bringing out another, I hope she does anyway, because it’s really the, the first book was amazing, and I was doing that narc decoding for members of my group.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And so I was also doing this work as a translator, and then people were asking me, “Can you put this message through the NARC Decoder?”

So I, one day I thought, “I wonder if I can get AI to help me do that.”

Kate Anthony: Yeah,

Rina Rosewell: So I tried it out. I gave it this prompt and everything, and it was really impressive what it came out with. It still needed a lot of massaging, a lot of prompting, and I started doing that. And then people wanted to find out, “How did you do that?”

‘Cause I told them I used AI. I didn’t want to cheat and say I did it myself. So I held a webinar for some of these moms and created a couple more prompts, and [00:03:00] we started getting going. And our minds, like how synergy is when one person has one idea, then another one comes with another idea, and before it’s, before the end of the webinar, we’d also created a prompt to strategize based on ex’s messages and things like that.

Yeah. And I, this was great. So I created a prompt guide out of that, and that prompt guide got downloaded, and then I was starting to think about I wanted to write a book. And I hit on this idea because I thought AI is like you s- it’s such a topical issue, and people are using it anyway.

And so I thought, “This is great.” People, but a lot of people are using it wrong or inefficiently or ineffectively.

Kate Anthony: Okay.

Rina Rosewell: Or people are also scared about it. We can talk about that later. So-

…

Rina Rosewell: That’s what I decide, why I decided to write the book. And the thing is about AI, yeah, it’s a tech thing.

It’s te- I’m not a, I’m not the biggest tech person myself. But I love [00:04:00] tools, and this tool, the, was, gave people the skills that I have that they don’t have. Because once I could create prompts, which I have in the book, and the prompts that I created they have my suggestions, ideas, my copywriting, my language-

Things, kinda nuances. I know how to, how messages must sound. So that’s why I thought it was great that an AI person can do stuff with AI, but they don’t have the language skills, or they don’t have the knowledge about how coercive control works in post-separation context- Yeah … which is really important for creating these prompts, and how people who are victims of post-separation abuse, how they struggle and why they struggle.

So all of that went into my prompts.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Yeah, and it’s important, I think you also say something about the fact that, we don’t, [00:05:00] we need to make sure that our responses don’t sound like AI, which is- Yeah … becoming a really big topic now, right? Which is that, like, when AI began, we were all just “Whoa, it can do all this stuff,” right?

Yeah. And then we started to, it started to become ever more recognizable as AI. The patterns

Rina Rosewell: Yeah, I’m starting to hate Facebook, for instance, because you saw- you scroll through and everything is just like AI slop. You can see the way things are written oh- Yep … okay, go on to the next thing, interesting things, but it’s all written by AI, and I hate that. Yeah. And you can see it’s all written by AI.

Kate Anthony: Because of the pattern, the speech patterns- Yeah … the the, the writing patterns. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been having this conversation with myself for the last couple of weeks, actually, ’cause I, I use it in my work often because it’s a really useful tool, but it’s ceasing to be as useful [00:06:00] because now it’s oh shit I have to actually undo everything that it’s done for me because I have to rewrite it.

I have to, copyright it edit it, because it’s just, it’s not usable anymore ’cause it is so recognizable.

Yeah,

Rina Rosewell: That was another thing. People I could see, one of the things that I saw online is people who hate AI, there are, a lot of them are authors and writers. Some of them, a lot of them actually made it their online identity on social media to hate AI.

It got a bit much for me. I was like, just get a life, yeah. And but the thing is that what I thought is gonna happen is that if everyone uses AI, everything’s gonna sound like AI, and the people that don’t, or the people that I’ve… for instance, this book, I wrote it myself. I used AI for the outputs, the example outputs for the prompts, and- Sure

a couple of the prompts I used AI to help me create- … but otherwise I wrote it myself. It’s all my voice.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And when you write [00:07:00] yourself, it stands out. You stand out. And so I always felt people… And that’s, that, that brings up like, another issue about people worrying about their exes using AI as well.

Kate Anthony: Yeah, sure. Yeah. It’s so that’s okay, right? We’re using it. If they use it, first of all, if an ex uses AI W- what do you think people are concerned about? I would say great, ’cause AI might not- Yeah … be a, as targeted or might actually be a better communicator.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. In a way, yes, it might be a better communicator, but for generally for people who are of good intention who use AI.

But there was a study done just recently, I came across it a couple of days ago. I’m trying to think of the name of the woman who did it.

She saw that people were using AI to respond in their relationships, and she tested it, and she found that AI, in 49 to 50% of the [00:08:00] cases, that it actually tells people what they want to hear, and it makes them more…

It’s very sycophantic, and it actually- Yeah … leads them into dysfunctional thinking. I’m trying to think of her name. I think it was Myra.

Kate Anthony: Yes. I read the s- I read the same thing, and- Yeah … yes, it was talking about how It’s people are not p- they don’t resolve conflict or whatever because you’ve got AI is blowing smoke up your ass and telling you’re right all the time.

Rina Rosewell: That’s exactly it. Now, the way I’ve written my book, right? Yeah. It’s to help people use AI. That’s part of the thing with my book, the instructions the prompts the more how-to chapters, the more things to avoid, that kind of thing, is to help people not make those mistakes, not let AI lead them down this path of more rigid thinking or making, creating how to avoid, ’cause AI [00:09:00] hallucinates a lot, how to avoid that, how to prevent…

another thing that AI does, it gets things back to front sometimes. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that when you’ve used it. If you say, “A did this to B,” and then you do something with AI and it brings, it produces something that says, “B did this to A.”

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: Just this- Yeah … very… so AI does all those things.

And- Yeah, it’s,

Kate Anthony: it makes a lot of mistakes.

Rina Rosewell: It does. That’s

Kate Anthony: for sure.

Rina Rosewell: And the thing about an abuser, and my theory has been an abuser is generally, I’ll talk, use the word abuser, is generally too entitled to check the output properly. And also they like the psycho fancy.

That’s

Kate Anthony: what I was gonna say. The psycho fancy.

Of course. And that’s the fancy. Like a narcissist loves that. “What? You’re blowing-” Yes … “smoke up my ass? Keep going. Give me more.”

Rina Rosewell: I’ve come across that several times, that an AI will tell someone something who’s, And so an ex will come with something that the AI has told them. One of my client’s exes came with with these suggestions [00:10:00] for, she wanted, he needed to pay for their child to receive certain therapies, and so he went and he found ChatGPT.

It was obviously ChatGPT, from ChatGPT, ’cause there were little emojis, in front- yeah …

Kate Anthony: of each suggestion- …

Rina Rosewell: kind of thing. All of the suggestions that were in his proposal were either totally unsuitable for their child or didn’t exist. S- so that’s the one thing. Yeah. And the other thing, the only thing that I find with AI and abusers using it, it makes their abusive messages sound smoother and more…

Kate Anthony: it, yes it can aid in be- in them being more covert.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah, more covert and more reasonable sounding. But that’s, when I say the thing to do there is their actions don’t change. You document their actions, right?

Kate Anthony: Exactly. Yes, exactly. When you say, like you’re putting, prompts to put into AI, do you work with…

I know that Anne Wintemute [00:11:00] wrote the introduction to your book.

Rina Rosewell: Yes. Yes.

Kate Anthony: So-

Rina Rosewell: She, I worked with her.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. So I love Anne. And so do you- Yeah … use, are these good prompts to use in Ami?

Rina Rosewell: Yeah, you can use them in any AI tool, Amy, Claude, ChatGPT. I have my favorite tools. Amy is a great one for survivors. If you- Yeah

You want analysis, Claude is a good one for that- Yeah … possibly as well. I believe, having maybe a couple of tools depending on what you want. Then there’s Perplexity, which is like a search engine. So you can use these tools in Amy, absolutely. These prompts, these prompts.

Kate Anthony: The prompts, yes.

Okay. Yeah. That’s great to know. One of the… You said you have an entire section of the book on mindset. Are some of the prompts through using AI for mindset tools? Like, how does that work in your book?

Rina Rosewell: The way it works in my book is I make it easy for people to do [00:12:00] things that help them have mindset shifts, ’cause when we’re stuck we can’t think creatively, right?

When we’re in fear mode, flight- Sure … fight, flight, freeze, or fawn-

…

Rina Rosewell: Whatever. And so AI actually short, shorts, it s- short-circuits that fear response. So the prompts are ones to help people think differently. For instance, there’s one “Help me,” “In this moment. If I react, this is how I’m feeling.

If I react like this, what will my situation look like in six months’ time?”

Kate Anthony: Oh, wow. “

Rina Rosewell: And if I react strat…” But con- versus then, “If I react strategically in this situation, how can it look in six months’ time?”

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: So then they have, first of all, they have already, they have pos- two possibilities.

That helps open their mind, helps them stop, okay, realize why it’s important to react strategically rather than from re- in reactive mode, which is the most, that’s the most harmful and destructive for victims. [00:13:00] There are other prompts as well. For instance there’s this, cognitive behavioral therapy principles where you, instead of like you’re in a situation, say.

Your ex has just said that your kid can’t go to summer camp.

All right? And you immediately go, you have a think, thought about that, “Oh, no, he’s always trying to block me. My child is going to be ruined if they don’t go to summer camp.” And then you, your feeling is negative, and then your whole day is ruined, say.

You go and maybe you send off an angry text or you go and do something im- personally emotionally destructive, or you’re just unproductive. You’re not able to function the rest of the day. And what I did was, is there’s a kind of a coaching technique where you instead of starting, you start with the situation But instead of immediately going with the automatic thoughts that generates, you start at somewhere else.

Maybe you start at the end. What is it I actually want to achieve? Yeah. Whether that’s I want my [00:14:00] kid to end up in summer camp, or I want to have a productive day in spite of this, and you work backwards. Set. And I’ve created prompts to help you do that without- … because it’s hard to think, think of five alternative thoughts.

When you’re in fear-based mode, that’s the

Kate Anthony: last thing you can- I was gonna say, when you’re activated- Yeah … forget it.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah.

So AI is great for brainstorming. It can brainstorm that.

Kate Anthony: I see. Yeah. That’s interesting. Okay. That’s really fascinating. And it can really help bring down the temperature of yourself and your own experience while it’s happening- Yeah

so that you can move on from this, so that you can then think strategically, because you can’t think strategically when you’re activated. That’s just not gonna happen. Let alone think of other outcomes and how, other ways to feel or w- anything, right? But you literally can’t think tr- strategically when you’re activated.

Rina Rosewell: No, and you can’t… you just can’t think as well.

Kate Anthony: Exactly. Exactly. Not

Rina Rosewell: strategically.

Kate Anthony: [00:15:00] One of the… You say that, obviously a lot of people are already using AI to respond to their exes. And so your, but your book goes beyond just giving you prompts, right? What else can AI do for survivors that a lot of people may not have thought of?

Rina Rosewell: For instance, this was actually, I have some, one influencer to thank, because I was busy writing a book, and I was nearly finished, and then I read, she had a post saying, “Oh, AI is great. Maybe can help you, create responses to your ex, but it can’t help you be yourself and be authentic in court, and present yourself in court.”

And I was like, “What the hell? I know AI can do that.” Was like, “Okay, here. I’ll take on the challenge.” And so that’s one thing that it can do. It can help you- How

Kate Anthony: can it do that?

Rina Rosewell: It can help you, first of all I brought in some of my expertise from my [00:16:00] own studies when I did my master’s in translation.

I studied what’s called hermeneutics, which is how people interpret things.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And and how judges and courts and evaluators, they see things one way, and we come to them as parents, as protective parents or abuse victims, thinking that we’re seeing things the same way, and we’re not.

It’s totally different outlooks, and people- Yeah … don’t realize that. That’s right.

Kate Anthony: There’s a huge

Rina Rosewell: gap there. Yeah. So I created some prompts to help parents translate their experiences into what I call in book judgish.

Kate Anthony: Yes.

Rina Rosewell: Made up that word.

Kate Anthony: Great.

Rina Rosewell: So that in a way, in a court-friendly, in a court-friendly way, that a court will understand and appreciate that won’t make them go, “Oh, he is this, this person is overreacting.”

Then I also created some prompts to help people practice how [00:17:00] to, to get AI to, “This is my situation, and this is what’s happened. What would an evaluator maybe assume? How can I overcome those assumptions? What kind of questions will the evaluator ask me?” And then give me questions for a role play, and then of course, you go and take the questions and role play them with a friend or a coach or something like that.

And then another one I created is I have this, this whole thing that vict- this idea that victims, being a victim is the worst game of Twister ever

Kate Anthony: Yeah,

Rina Rosewell: there is Right? You’ve got to, you’ve got to protect your child, right? So there your hand goes there. But you gotta also show that you want your child to have a relationship with your ex.

And then you’ve got to, you’ve got to experi- talk about your experiences, but you can’t show that you’re afraid of your ex and all these things. And- Yes,

Kate Anthony: especially as a woman, right? Especially as

Rina Rosewell: a woman … [00:18:00] especially.

There yeah. Yeah. And it’s hard to be authentic and strategic at the same time.

That is super, super hard because it’s like they’re two oppos- they seem like two opposite things. And I came up with this idea. I read it in a book by Amanda Montell. She talked about Zen Koans, and the Zen Koan is a way to break apart an intractable problem.

And this is an inta- intractable problem.

You gotta be authentic- Yep … but you also gotta be strategic, and you gotta show this, but at, that at the same time. And I created prompts for that as well.

Kate Anthony: That’s amazing, ’cause that is one… I think that is the hardest thing, is that we have to explain turmoil. We have to describe- … turmoil without being in turmoil, right?

Without being overly emotional about it. But we have to explain- Yeah … a [00:19:00] very emotional experience and how damaging it can be without being triggered, getting emotional, looking like we’re out of control, like any of those things. Yeah. Because any, w- we all know that if a woman is too emotional- she’s out the door, and there’s, but, if a man starts to, to cry in court, he’s- Yeah … oh, my goodness gracious. Oh,

Rina Rosewell: God. Poor thing. A lot of a- abusers do that. Oh, of course. I had one client, her… Not only, the f- she was actually I write about this in my book. She was in court when she was, like, 38 weeks pregnant because she was in a new marriage by then, but you know how those custody- Oh

issues go on until- Yeah … the child ages out. So-

Kate Anthony: Yeah …

Rina Rosewell: she was 38 weeks pregnant. She had to go to court for this thing hearing, this child custody hearing where her ex wanted more custody, and she was all hormonal and everything, and she started crying in court, and the judge just railed her out. He, [00:20:00] he came down on her like a ton of bricks and criticized her and everything.

So then a few years later, she went back to court, and she was terrified. This was her big thing. “How am I going to stop myself from breaking down in tears like this again?”

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And she practiced. She grounded herself and everything. She did all these… She was self-representing, too, against her ex and who had a lawyer.

So she goes to court, and she’s all calm. The ex’s lawyer breaks down in tears in court and told the judge that this woman, the, the mom, is abusive towards the ex, and the ex broke down in tears as well. And the judge gave them, he gave them some time. “Go and, I’m so sorry. Go calm yourself down.”

Barely let her talk. So it’s like-

…

Rina Rosewell: The double

Kate Anthony: standard. Whatever you

Rina Rosewell: do. There it is. Whatever you do, you can’t win. Nope. You’re either too emotional or you’re too cold.

Kate Anthony: That’s right. That’s right. Welcome to being a woman. Here we are[00:21:00]

What, how do you feel like people are using AI wrong in these circumstances, in these situations? If you’re we keep talking about it being this great tool, but can it go wrong? How are people using it incorrectly? Not… Never mind the way that people are using it for evil but just maybe incorrectly.

Rina Rosewell: And yeah. First of all, there… a lot of people are using it on a very superficial level. They’re giving it m- minimal prompts. Now, my… There’s Yellow Rock, Tina Swithin’s Yellow Rock technique?

Kate Anthony: Yep.

Rina Rosewell: I created a prompt that… And I put… In the book, I say that the Yellow Rock technique is…

tina Swithin, Tina worked in marketing before she did- … what she did, right? Yeah.

And so it’s no surprise she worked in marketing, because the Yellow Rock technique is the world’s most important marketing exercise that there is, because you’re marketing yourself [00:22:00] to a judge. Yeah. And the stakes are higher than any marketing stakes, because it’s your kid’s future,

Kate Anthony: right?

That’s right. That’s right. And so- For those who don’t know Yellow Rock, can you describe it for- Yeah … the audience members who may not know?

Rina Rosewell: There’s… Yeah. Some people might know Grey Rock, which is when you communicate with a coercive controller or a narcissist, you keep it very brief and the minimum and just formal and everything.

And Yellow Rock is a bit of that, but the whole purpose is to show that you’re collaborative. And it’s yellow- b- Grey Rock with a little bit of warmth and kindness added to it, sweetness. A little bit of s- so Yellow Rock. And I think it was Tina that came up with that name.

Yeah. So my Yellow Rock prompt is two pages long,

Kate Anthony: because I put- This is the thing about AI is that I’m learning that I think a lot of people don’t know is that, just writing a prompt itself is a whole thing.

That’s a whole thing. So it’s a two-page prompt?

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. It has to… it’s got [00:23:00] what it describes what Yellow Rock is, although by now probably AI’s…

When I wrote it, it was right at the back, the beginning when ChatGPT was created. But I still have the same thing and I’ve refined it. Describes what Yellow Rock is. I also incorporated the BIFF method into that prompt. Good. Brief-

…

Rina Rosewell: Informal, fair, not fair, and whatever. Brief- Michael Eddie

Kate Anthony: brief, informative, friendly, and firm.

Rina Rosewell: Friendly and firm, which is the same thing. The friendly and part is important. Yeah. And I give examples. I give examples of how n- what not to do. Not letting, being too permissive in your prompt, but setting boundaries, but setting them in a way that’s… and so I give exam- This this is say this is the message.

This is wrong because it does this. And then this is also wrong because it’s too much the other way.

And I also say use… Another thing I say is use, this came out of my copywriting, use- Contractions like it’s and they’re, because you’re not [00:24:00] writing a white paper- … for the UN.

You’re writing a message to your ex. You wouldn’t be super formal.

Kate Anthony: It is,

Rina Rosewell: yes. I do not agree with this. Thank you very much for your, thank you for your attention.

Kate Anthony: So thank you for this attention to your, to this matter.

Rina Rosewell: Yes. Yeah. No. And so I try to, take out

So it’s very detailed, and people who use AI don’t know that your prompts have to give it a lot of … Or either that or you gotta go back and forth a lot with it once-

Kate Anthony: That’s right …

Rina Rosewell: once it’s spat out its response.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And you need to tell it Like who it is, right? You are a-

Rina Rosewell: You are me.

You are a victim of post-separation abuse, and you want to impress the hell out of the judges. You want to make it seem like this, I know I’m writing to my ex, but actually the final person, what I- what matters to me, I want my ex to get the point, but I also want any- anyone who reads this at some other stage when it’s produced as documentation in [00:25:00] court to understand how the…

I have tried to co-parent in a really strong… you can do that as well.

Kate Anthony: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the prompts I think are becoming far more important and a whole other market in and of themselves, right? Yeah. Creating, yeah. What else do you see that people do wrong?

Rina Rosewell: Another thing is that people, and this is some, this is one of the critiques of AI that come from people in the, you know, anti- anti-AI people in the divorce coaching or the high conflict, what- whatever you call it, sector.

The in- that people are putting too much information into somewhere that might use it. People have to be aware of what kind of confidentiality issues there are.

Kate Anthony: Complete and total, there is no confidentiality, right? I mean- Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: There are, there is different con- levels of con- confidentiality.

For instance, Amisays is a very confidential tool. Okay. In terms of putting your information [00:26:00] in. There’s two aspects to this confidentiality thing. Putting your info in, Amisays is great. They do not store anything, whatever. And there are ways that… I’ve got a whole chapter in the book about the confidentiality issue, ways to deal with it.

Okay. Because the other issue in the US as far as confidentiality is concerned, not such an issue where I live, because here it only relates mainly to financial stuff, but is disclosure, or what do you call it? Discovery, where in the US, it’s in some places. Some places are very strict, some places are, you, they can ask for anything.

They can ask for your journal.

Kate Anthony: So they can subpoena your ChatGPT history?

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. And people worry about that, and it’s fair to worry about that, and there are also ways to deal with that I talk about in the book, ways to… you can’t illegally… It would be il- it’s illegal if your ChatGPT history has been subpoenaed, you cannot go and delete it.

That is illegal But [00:27:00] you can be proactive and you can be aware that it might be subpoenaed at some stage, and there are ways to be on ChatGPT or whatever, AI the tools that you use to minimize what is available once it gets subpoenaed. I’m not gonna go into that now. It’s in the book. But another thing that I want, point I want to make is if your ChatGPT or whatever AI history is discoverable, so are your Google searches, your comments and likes on- On Facebook

all these influencers’ social media presences- Ah. … That they, so I find it a little bit hypocritical that social media influencers, they live on these likes that feed the algorithm and these comments that feed the algorithm, and yet they tell people, “No, you shouldn’t use AI because might be discoverable.”

Kate Anthony: And so is your content if I’m wa- it’s I think that, So it’s

Rina Rosewell: all my comments on this, these people’s content, say, or

Kate Anthony: whatever. Exactly. Yes. [00:28:00] I think it it’s who you’re following. By the way- … I don’t want people to freak out that oh, if I’m following an influencer, or an influencer, or if they’re following me or you, whatever- and learning how to communicate with somebody who is, who basically lives to destroy you, like they can subpoena that. Whatever. W- it doesn’t show- Yeah … anything other than that you’re attempting- You’re… Oh,

Rina Rosewell: yeah. You-

Kate Anthony: To learn how to deal with a very difficult situation, right? I hear this all the time with, with women say I don’t wanna go on medication for depression or anxiety because then he’s gonna say-” Oh

“I have mental health issues.”

Rina Rosewell: I don’t wanna get therapy. Oh my

Kate Anthony: gosh. I don’t wanna go to a therapist because he’ll use it against me. Listen, we’re- Yes … we’re beyond that. In 2026, thank God- Yeah … we are at the point where people do see you getting help for issues- Yeah … as actually b- a, a, a benefit, [00:29:00] not not something that, that is gonna be…

if that’s used against you in court, I’m pretty sure, don’t hold me- Yeah … to this 100%, but for the most part, it will be seen as you are doing something to- Yeah … help yourself.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. And if it’s not, if it’s not, then you have your lawyer has done, represented you very poorly.

Kate Anthony: That’s right.

That’s exactly right. Yes. Worrying about things being subpoenaed, putting things through the lens of if this were subpoenaed, would it be, could it be objectively seen as detrimental to my case? Or is it just like I’m using a tool because I have to use this tool in a difficult situation, right?

Rina Rosewell: And everyone is using the tool.

If you’re being, if your stuff is subpoenaed, your ex’s stuff is subpoenaed as well. Yeah. Same thing.

Kate Anthony: That’s exactly right.

Rina Rosewell: It’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander. And this is all just- … more fear-based thinking, and that’s why I like, I thinking, victims, they don’t need more, [00:30:00] they don’t need more fear-based- They don’t need more fear

Kate Anthony: stuff.

Yeah. No.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah.

Kate Anthony: I wholeheartedly agree. Wholeheartedly agree. So Rina, what else, is there anything else that we haven’t discussed that you think would be important for people to know about your book and about using AI in this day and age?

Rina Rosewell: As I say, it’s unfortunately, there are a lot of reasons why people don’t like AI, and some of them are, I find are valid.

And one thing I wanna say about my book I would love people who hate AI to read it.

Those are the people I actually want to read it because- Okay … I think there’s a lot in my book that you can get out of it, even if you hate AI, because I, it’s not just like a bunch of prompts.

Yeah. It’s a lot of stories, a lot of motivating stuff, inspiring stuff, a lot of tools, and you can use those tools in the prompts for whatever you want. And for my favorite part of the book is actually the last chapter because in the last chapter I talk about how [00:31:00] to use it As a kind of way to push back on yourself

Kate Anthony: Right.

To ask it to not blow smoke up your ass and tell me where my thinking is faulty

Rina Rosewell: Critique this. Where am I going wrong? And then, or even to say, “I don’t want to…” To, to start developing your own critical thinking skills. “Instead of telling me what to do, I want you to ask me questions-

About this situation.” Things like that. So-

Kate Anthony: Yeah …

Rina Rosewell: I wrote the book, some of my history goes into it as well, a little bit of it. I have, like any victim of, former victim of post-separation abuse, we all have our own little brand of… I remember I had a new client once. She was just out of her divorce, out of her marriage.

She was just starting on her divorce, and she was like a deer in the headlights.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And she says, “What I’ve been through, it’s like Hollywood.”

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: And then she told me the story, and it’s, it’s every- it’s like everyth- and not to… I’m not minimizing what she’s gone through at all, because it’s not to be minimized.

It’s very major. But we all have, everyone who’s [00:32:00] a victim of post-separation abuse has an experience of some sort or another that’s-

Kate Anthony: Yes …

Rina Rosewell: could, should be on Netflix.

Kate Anthony: It, they’re, it’s all, they’re all Dateline episodes waiting to happen,

Rina Rosewell: right? Oh, yes. Well- And- yeah. Some of them have happened in many different ways, right?

Kate Anthony: That’s exactly right. And look, I, we, sitting in our chairs, we hear so many stories. When it’s- Oh … when it’s happening to you and it’s the first time, you think that nobody else has been through anything like this. And the reason that you work with somebody like me, like Rina, is because we have heard all of these stories.

This is not new to us. There is very few… There are very few things and stories that shock me at this point.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. But we’re not jaded either, because we know-

Kate Anthony: Oh, no.

Rina Rosewell: It’s not about that … we know we’ve been there in that position.

Kate Anthony: No, it’s not about that, but it’s als- but it is about we have heard it before, we’ve experienced it before, and we actually do know how to move through it- Yeah

and to help you move through [00:33:00] it. When you’re h- when you’re a deer in the headlights, we know how to guide you through, because-

Rina Rosewell: Yeah …

Kate Anthony: unfortunately this is all very common these days.

Rina Rosewell: It is. Very common It’s an epidemic. There was a recent Supreme Court decision in Canada which was quite incredible.

It’s made coercive control, intimate partner violence-

Kate Anthony: Yep …

Rina Rosewell: a specific tort, which is a cl- a, an action that

Kate Anthony: you can claim I read about this. It’s so good

Rina Rosewell: Yeah. Yeah. And I watched the hearing. The hearing is fascinating to watch because the judges, you can see, they all have their own individual quirks.

And but what came out of it one of the dissenting judges and the, every, several people, but including one of the te- dissenting judges and the man who was the, the attorney for the father, for the, the ex, the male ex who was going against this, they said that coercive control is an epidemic.

Kate Anthony: Yep. [00:34:00]

Rina Rosewell: And- They’re right … they’re saying it. The people that are on the other side of the argument are saying it.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Very interesting. Rina- … thank you so much for coming on. I- Thank you, Kate … really have enjoyed this conversation, and I encourage everyone to go out and get your book.

It sounds like it’s full of really important and vital information. Where can everyone find you and your book?

Rina Rosewell: Okay. It’s on Amazon, and it’s under my name, Rina Rosewell, R-O-S-E-W-E-L-L. It’s really hard. If you start search- searching for AI Armor, other things come up.

Kate Anthony: Yeah.

Rina Rosewell: But you can, it’s like if you search for my name, I’m probably the only, hopefully the only Rina Rosewell who has published a book on Amazon.

Or you can search for AI Armor Co-Parenting with a Narcissist. Great. And your website? LifeAfterAnAbusiveRelationship.com. I know it’s a mouthful. It’s funny, I can type that because part of my email address, I can type Life After [00:35:00] An Abusive Relationship perfectly- Yeah … but no one else can. And I also have a newsletter, and what I’m gonna do is the prompt the actual, all the prompts in the book I have in a downloadable format, and I’m going to give you a link that will lead to my website.

And from the website, when you click on that downloadable link, it takes you to my newsletter to subscribe to my newsletter. I write this newsletter every week for victims of post-separation abuse to help them with tools and various insights as well.

So- Great … and then you can download my book. So that way you’ll get access to my website and my newsletter.

Kate Anthony: What is the… That’s the LifeAfterAnAbusiveRelationship.com?

Rina Rosewell: If- or you, yeah, just go to LifeAfterAnAbusiveRelationship.com/, or you’ll see there in the, the, the headings at the top book or books- Okay … I think it is.

Kate Anthony: Great. Perfect. Perfect. Rina, thank you so much for being here. This has been great, and good luck with the book.

Rina Rosewell: Yeah, and [00:36:00] I’m happy to talk to you anytime. I really enjoyed this. Thanks.

Kate Anthony: Great. Thank you.