I’m welcoming back one of your favorite guests and one of mine, divorce mortgage specialist Tami Wollensak, because we need to talk about the house. Specifically… what actually happens to it in divorce and what your real options are. Mortgage rules have shifted, interest rates have changed, and the questions I hear from clients all the time still come back to the same thing: 

Can I keep the house? 

Should I keep the house? 

Is it even possible?

Tami and I walk through the realities behind keeping the marital home, including what people misunderstand about ownership, how mortgage assumption actually works, and why the emotional pull to keep it has to be balanced with long-term financial stability. We also talk about what happens when plans fall through, how to build backup strategies into your agreements, and why sometimes the smartest move is stepping back instead of fighting to stay.

This conversation walks through the real financial and legal realities of what happens to the house in divorce. Because wanting the house and being able to keep the house are not always the same thing.

What you’ll hear about in this episode:

• The biggest misconception about “wanting to keep the house” (2:18)
• What mortgage assumption means and why you must ask the right questions (8:32)
• Why home ownership isn’t always the healthiest financial decision after divorce (23:14)
• What happens when a mortgage assumption falls through and how to recover (41:32)

✨ If you’d like to watch the video version of this episode, you can find it here.

Resources & Links:

Get Your Curated Podcast Playlist
Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate
The Divorce Survival Guide Resource Bundle
Phoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment Collective
Kate on Instagram
Kate on Facebook
Kate’s Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch
The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube!
Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce 

Tami’s Website
Episode 204: Take or Leave the House? With Tami Wollensak

Show Transcript:

Kate Anthony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back. I have with me today one of your favorite guests and mine, Tami Wollensak. She is a divorce mortgage specialist, so we are talking about all things. What hell do you do with the house? Can you assume the mortgage things have changed since the last time Tami was on, so we wanted to bring a little bit of a refresher to this conversation. So Tami, thank you so much for being here. 

Tami Wollensak: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Kate. Your platform does so much for so many people and I’m so grateful to be here. And have this conversation. It’s so timely. 

Kate Anthony: It really is because I hear from my clients all the time, we always start talking about, what to do with the house.

Can I keep the house? Should I keep the house? What is the biggest misconception when somebody [00:01:00] says I wanna keep the house. Let’s say a stay at home mom has been in the house. The kids raising the kids in the house, they wanna keep their children in their in the home, right?

This is like one of the most common scenarios. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah, totally. 

Kate Anthony: What is one of the biggest misconceptions about that? 

Tami Wollensak: It’s interesting that you say that ’cause I just got off a call with a client earlier today and she was it that exact same scenario. Stay at home, mom, can I keep the house? Spouse is telling her you can’t, you’re not on the mortgage.

Okay. So that’s the first thing. 

Kate Anthony: Okay. 

Tami Wollensak: We’re not gonna take information from our spouses. We’re gonna get clear guidance on what that means. And the first thing is, if you’ve lived in the house during your marriage, doesn’t matter if you’re on the mortgage or not, it’s a marital asset, right? If it 

was 

Kate Anthony: purchased, 

Tami Wollensak: if it was purchased, sometimes part [00:02:00] of the equity that was purchased prior, if it was purchased prior to the marriage, can be considered non-marital.

If one of the people bought the house prior to the marriage, 

Kate Anthony: yeah, 

Tami Wollensak: but for the majority, let’s say you bought the house together and for whatever reason, sometimes in lending you are not on the mortgage for some reason. That happens often. Yeah. And so people think if I’m not on the mortgage, I don’t own the house.

That is not the case. More than likely if you were married when you purchased, you’re on the deed of the house or the title of the house, that is ownership interest. And even then, if for some reason you weren’t put on the title, maybe you bought the house, during your engagement or something like that, and you weren’t put on the house, there are other.

Things to consider and depending on your state law and stuff like that, but more than likely it’s a marital asset and what you’re negotiating, and I tell people all this time, is not the [00:03:00] house. They think I’m negotiating the house itself. You’re negotiating the equity in the house, and I’m gonna explain that really simply because a lot of times this is a foreign concept for people, but we’re, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna come up with the value of the home, what the home is worth today, what.

Think it’s worth, we’re just, right now we’re just in discovery phase, so what do we think the house is worth? Okay. The house is worth 500,000 and I know that we probably own, even if I’m not on the mortgage and I’ve never seen a mortgage statement, but we probably owe around 200 or. Let’s call it 300,000 to make easy math.

500,000 is the value. 300,000 is the balance on the mortgage. So what I’m negotiating when I’m going through my divorce is $200,000. The difference. That’s the equity. That is the marital asset. And the answer to the [00:04:00] question is usually you have to do two things in a divorce process. You have to release liability ’cause the person that’s leaving the house doesn’t wanna be responsible for the mortgage, right?

Forever. Sometimes there’s cases where you are responsible for the mortgage for a certain period of time or whatever’s right for you and your family, but two things typically need to happen. They have to be released from the mortgage. Get to get their portion of the equity. Okay. So that’s, really what we have to run numbers and see how that looks. What we can do to come up with that piece of equity, to pay out the equity. Can it be exchanged with other assets that you’ve accumulated over your marriage? It’s not in a silo. You’re not just looking at the house, right?

You’re looking at your entire. They call it a marital balance sheet. I always tell clients it’s like a bucket of assets. Let’s just think about it like a bucket. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, [00:05:00] exactly. Everything 

Tami Wollensak: you 

Kate Anthony: accumulated, everything’s in the bucket and how you divide, it’s gotta be divided equally. But that doesn’t mean that a hundred thousand dollars has to come out from the house.

Like it could come from your retirement. Could, yep. Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: Could come. I’ve had people where it came from a parent. A parent has helped and paid out the equity so that the person staying in the house didn’t have to, we could do a whole new mortgage sometimes, but that needs to be looked at.

We need to see what is that new payment going to look like. 

Kate Anthony: And this is where, and this is where it’s if you want to take, if you wanna keep the house, 

Tami Wollensak: yeah. 

Kate Anthony: You’ll probably have to, as we’ve talked about before, qualify for a new mortgage. Which if you’ve been a stay at home parent may not be possible because you don’t have provable income.

You have to be, so you have to qualify for the new mortgage. So then do a refinance in order to get your spouse off the mortgage and put it only in [00:06:00] your name. Make sure you can actually qualify for that at today’s mortgage rates. Yes, and that’s where people get. Tied up really twisted up. So they think how can I just keep the mortgage?

Tami Wollensak: We have, we bought our house in 2020 and we have the best interest rate ever. Everybody thinks their interest rate is the lowest interest rate that existed. And I say, surprise if you, unless you lived under a rock, most people have a great interest rate on their mortgage during 2020. During that pandemic, during those times, rates were unprecedentedly low.

Is that a word? Unprecedented? 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: They were the lowest we’ve seen at a very, in decades. Most people refinanced or purchased during that time. So how do they keep that rate? So that’s what we wanted to talk about today because there’s a word out there that’s getting thrown around a lot and [00:07:00] used, and it’s called mortgage assumption.

Kate Anthony: Yes. 

Tami Wollensak: And a mortgage assumption. What that means is there’s a way some lenders allow it, and not all lenders. Allow for you to keep that mortgage rate. Sometimes you have to have been on the mortgage because it’s considered a release of liability. So two people on a mortgage, they’re releasing one person from the liability of it.

If you’re not on the mortgage, sometimes they don’t allow you to flip flop and assume your spouse’s mortgage. So that is a really important question to ask now. 

Kate Anthony: The last time we, I’m just wanna, sorry to interrupt. Yeah. But no. Yeah. Good. The last time you were here, we did talk about assumptions.And there was something about how. If I remember correctly, a lot of times lenders [00:08:00] would say no. The mortgage is un insatiable. But then actually if you dig a little bit deeper, it was act. It actually was assumed. 

Tami Wollensak: That’s a great point because the deal of that. So people aren’t talking to the right people when they’re asking the questions.

They’re calling their loan officer that did the loan last time. Most loan officers are not trained in divorce. I am trained in divorce. That’s why I understand this stuff. But if you just call your bank or you call your loan officer, they’re not gonna know. Most conventional loans, which a lot of people have are not assumable. You can pull out your loan documents today from when you close, and it’ll clearly stay right there on the document, not assumable. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: But because of the divorce, because. You’re going through a divorce, a lot of times a conventional loan can be [00:09:00] assumable because of the process of the divorce.

Kate Anthony: Ah, 

Tami Wollensak: so that is the main thing. You can’t just call your service. 

Kate Anthony: Change in circumstances. It’s like the, yes like I can’t apply for health insurance. I can only apply during the window of open enrollment unless there’s special circumstances. 

Tami Wollensak: 100% correct. It’s a special circumstance. Gotcha, gotcha. So when you call your servicer, and when I say servicer, I’m talking about pull out your mortgage statement.

And at the very top of the statement or at the bottom, it’s gonna say, for mortgage servicing questions, call. There’s always a number. 

Kate Anthony: Okay. Mortgage servicing. Okay. 

Tami Wollensak: Mortgage servicing. And you’re gonna call the servicing department. 

Kate Anthony: Okay. 

Tami Wollensak: And you’re gonna say, I am going through a divorce is my loan assumable?

You have to use those words. 

Kate Anthony: Ah, gotcha. Those 

Tami Wollensak: are the important magic words. ’cause if you [00:10:00] just say, is my loan assumable? They’re gonna say, no, it’s not. 

Kate Anthony: Gotcha, 

Tami Wollensak: gotcha. So make sure you let ’em know. People are afraid. They think, oh my gosh, if I tell ’em I’m going through a divorce, is that gonna be a bad thing?

No. It’s not gonna be a bad thing. You need, they need to know what you’re talking about. 

Kate Anthony: They can’t 

Tami Wollensak: take 

Kate Anthony: action against you. 

Tami Wollensak: No. They can’t take any action against you. There’s no, it’s 

Kate Anthony: not illegal. 

Tami Wollensak: Yes. It’s not illegal. No. And here’s the other thing. So then they’ll be able to tell, they’ll look up your loan and they’ll say, yeah, your loan is consumable.

Or no, yes or no, but either way, you’re ahead of the curve by either eliminating that option or being able to ask more questions, right? And the more questions are gonna be this, because a mortgage company is not gonna allow you to even apply for a mortgage assumption until your divorce is final.

Why is [00:11:00] that? The reason is because when you’re going through a divorce, you’re dividing everything. You may be receiving support, but you a also may be liable for support. You may have to pay support. You’re dividing your assets and you’re also dividing your liabilities. Maybe there’s a car payment that’s in your spouse’s name that you are gonna be now be liable for ’cause you’re gonna get the car.

Kate Anthony: So there’s a little bit of chicken and egging happening here because if I, if they say yes, it’s assumable. 

Tami Wollensak: Yep. 

Kate Anthony: But you can’t apply to assume it, you still have to apply 

Tami Wollensak: Yes. 

Kate Anthony: Until after the divorce is final. And in our final decree, everything is divided around the fact that I. The assumption I’m that I’m gonna keep the house, that I’m gonna be able to assume the mortgage, but then what if I can’t?

Tami Wollensak: Exactly. What if you can’t? 

Kate Anthony: What if at the when it’s all said and done, [00:12:00] can they say this is the likelihood that you will be like, 

Tami Wollensak: they 

Kate Anthony: won’t 

Tami Wollensak: most of them will not, they won’t even go down the process. So do you need a backup plan? 100%. You need a backup plan. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: You need to be comfortable with the fact that if that assumption doesn’t go through, you always wanna write in your settlement.

Agreement what the backup plan is. I’m either gonna assume the mortgage or I’m gonna refinance the mortgage. Okay? And this is going to be the timeline. And if that doesn’t happen, and if I can’t do either, what’s the runway of time? What’s the agreement going to be? Are you going to be able to remain on the mortgage for a certain period of time?

I’ve seen settlement agreements that say you’re either gonna assume the mortgage or Excel. 

Kate Anthony: Yes. Exactly. And there’s a time, there’s a time, 

Tami Wollensak: there’s a very small, okay, let’s talk about timeline. [00:14:00] Most of these mortgage companies and Kate I, this is probably just like a little fantasy that I have, but I think of one guy sitting in the corner processing.

Assumption, and he’s not compensated really to do it. He is in a dark room and he is ah, this one fell off the tracks. Not gonna happen. Just because so many people are trying to do this and they don’t really staff for it. 

Kate Anthony: Oh, 

Tami Wollensak: and so these large institutions like Chase or some of these big banks, 

Kate Anthony: yeah.

Tami Wollensak: They take six to eight, they’ll tell people, if you’re getting the packet of information, it’ll be six to eight months. Six to eight months To process it to to process it. The assumption, so what if you, your spouse is not gonna agree to stay on the loan for six to eight months, right?

You’re in trouble ’cause you agreed that you were gonna do this in 90 days. It’s written in your settlement that you’re gonna do it in [00:15:00] 90 days. Chase could care less that you made that agreement. Oh, that’s not it. It wasn’t made with them. They don’t give a shit, 

right? They have no skin in the game.

They could care less that you have to sell because they’re not, processing it fast enough. So you need to know what the timeline is. So the second question is, yes, your, my loan is consumable. Okay, great. What’s the timeline? Okay, it’s takes six to eight months. Six to eight months. Give yourself a year.

So can I get, can I have a year to state for you to stay on the mortgage while I get this process? And then second thing is, what does it cost? This is not free. It’s not a free service. No. And. In a refinance, when people refi their mortgages, we roll all the costs into the loan. So there’s no, most people don’t write checks when they refinance mortgages.

Kate Anthony: Okay. They just go to the closing sign, the paperwork, and all the fees and [00:16:00] stuff are included in the new loan. Okay? This is not that. Yeah. Because all you’re doing, and in our example earlier where we where you owed 300,000. That’s all. You’re keeping 300,000, right? That’s what the mortgage is gonna be.

Tami Wollensak: It’s gonna be that. Yeah. When you assume it. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: So any. Any closing costs or fees or stuff like that, you’re gonna have to write a check for them. 

Kate Anthony: Because the assumption, I just wanna clarify for people who might be like, yeah, I don’t, what’s the difference, right? Is that 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: If you are taking your spouse off the mortgage and you’re refinancing, essentially you are applying for and obtaining a 

Tami Wollensak: brand new loan 

Kate Anthony: at a brand new rate based on the value of the home.

Today, 

Tami Wollensak: the new value, right? 

Kate Anthony: The new value, 

Tami Wollensak: correct. 

Kate Anthony: When you are assuming a mortgage you are taking on the mortgage that already exists at the rate that it has existed. At for all this [00:17:00] time. 

Tami Wollensak: Yep. 

Kate Anthony: So yeah. So those fees are not rolled in. They’re actually on top of. They’re part of, 

Tami Wollensak: correct. So they’re gonna ask you, you’re gonna reclose the loan.

Most of the time you’re gonna, ’cause you’re gonna have new paperwork that you’re gonna have to sign saying you’re fully responsible for the mortgage. Now your spouse is going to sign what’s. Typically in most states called a quick claim deed. And what that deed does is it removes them from having ownership interest to the house.

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: You’ve ref, you’ve assumed the mortgage, so they’re no longer liable on the mortgage, and now you own the house outright, it’s your house. You could do whatever you want with it. You could, keep it, sell it, do whatever. You don’t have to ask their permission any longer to do anything.

So that’s what you’re doing when you’re. Assuming the mortgage, so those fees and stuff that come along with closing a loan, title, fees, and now they’re not gonna get a new appraisal. They’re gonna go off of the [00:18:00] value of the home when you place the loan. So here’s another thing that comes up all the time and is really important for people to understand.

They think they can go get a home equity loan or, home equity line of credit to pay their spouse. The equity that a hundred thousand dollars that we talked about, right? Some people say I’ll just get a, I’ll just get a HELOC, or I’ll get a second mortgage and pay ’em their money. Sometimes if you place, if you owe 300, you place a hundred thousand dollars loan as a second mortgage.

That’s what it goes in. Second lean position. That can make the assumption deniable. And here’s the reason why. Because they’re not getting a new appraisal. They don’t know that the house is now worth 500. Maybe you bought the house at 400. But it’s now worth 500. So they’re, when the lender is [00:19:00] looking at this, they’re going off the value.

When you place the loan for the 300 and it was 400 then, 

Kate Anthony: right? 

Tami Wollensak: So now you have a $300,000 mortgage and you have a hundred thousand dollars mortgage. You’re at the ma, you’re at the full value. You have no equity, right? According to them. 

Kate Anthony: According to them, right? And if you refied, maybe you would, but yes.

Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: Because we would get a new appraisal. If you’re refinancing, we would go off current value. 

Kate Anthony: And so this becomes, it feels again, like there’s a lot of chicken and egging happening, a lot of, so you wanna make sure you know the timeline, the fees. Now, and you wanna negotiate, right?

If you’re keeping the house, maybe it makes sense that these are your fees, right? Yeah. Because it’s. Part of the investment in the thing that you’re keeping. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: But you also, before you start like fighting for these things, you need to know what’s possible. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: Because if the [00:20:00] assumption. Is theoretically possible, is it actually as some a possible for you?

Tami Wollensak: Is it feasible? Are you actually going to be able to make a mortgage payment on your own with your own income without having a second income, of a spouse or whatever? Everything is on you now. Utilities, maintenance, everything. Not just that mortgage payment. That’s the biggest factor that I like to drive home to people is does this make sense for your budget?

You may be able to do the process right now you’ve done the whole process and now you’ve assumed the mortgage. Now I own the house. Now what does this do for my budget?

Kate Anthony: [00:21:00] Tami, so I am, I’m hearing already in the ether all these voices of women being like, okay, but if I can’t, right. And if it doesn’t, then what? Because the market. The way it is, like I can’t afford to move either. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. People need to take a step back and really understand that sometimes you’re not gonna go from home ownership to home ownership.

Sometimes you’re gonna have to go from home ownership to rental. And there’s no shame at all in that. And there’s sometimes it gives you the breathing room to reestablish yourself and reestablish what a budget needs to be for you. Renting has a lot of benefits, such as you. If something breaks, you call your landlord, they come and they fix it, right?

You know what your budget is. If your rent is 3000 a month, that’s what it is, 3000 a month. 

Kate Anthony: That’s it. 

Tami Wollensak: You don’t, it’s not 3000 plus the heater just went out. It’s what [00:22:00] it is. That’s right. And so I think if it comes down to that and people are trying to come up with options, that’s a very viable option.

And yes, you may not be able to buy a similar home than what you were in, and I think people are very unrealistic with their lifestyle. Post-divorce, unfortunately. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, 

Tami Wollensak: sometimes you’re not gonna be able to live in the same neighborhood. You’re not gonna be able to live the same, be able to do the same things that you did being married.

I it’s just a fact. 

Kate Anthony: It is just a fact. And I wanna say very clearly, that, and I’ve said this many times on the podcast, and I wanna say it again, right? Is that a lot of us are, we are connected deeply, emotionally connected to our homes for a variety of reasons, of course, but also because we think that our children, it’s best for our children, right?

It gives them [00:23:00] minimal disruption, all of those things, which makes sense. And I’ve said this a million times, wherever. You are, is home to your children. The building doesn’t matter. I hate to use children are resilient and they adjust. I hate that because I feel like it’s a little dismissive of the experience that children go through, but also it’s true that they do adjust.

They do. They just need you. 

Tami Wollensak: I think they translate it. The transition, the way that you project it to them. 

Kate Anthony: Yes. 

Tami Wollensak: And I think we’ve talked about this on our previous talks together. Yeah. About, if you let them know that you’re still gonna be. There for them that you’re gonna still support them, you’re still gonna love them.

That you’re gonna do everything in your power to make sure that they can still go see their friends and do the [00:24:00] things that are important to them, their activities and their wanna know their life. What is my new life gonna look like? And if you leave a lot of unknowns, they’re gonna feel a lot of fear 

Kate Anthony: if it is clear to them or as clear as possible.

If you can answer as many questions concretely as you can, I don’t, I’ll remember when I got divorced, and by the way, I I will also repeat, I’ve said a million times, but when I got divorced, I moved out of the house. I wanted to keep it. I was so emotionally attached to that house. I’m still emotionally attached to that house.

I’ve been divorced for 17 years. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah, I know. 

Kate Anthony: And whenever I drive by that house, I’m still, my heart is still ugh. Now if I lived there, I’d hate it ’cause it was fucking tiny. 

Tami Wollensak: Oh really? 

Kate Anthony: No closets. 

Tami Wollensak: Mine was opposite. Mine was really big and I, it’s such a relief when I drive by it, I’m like, oh, thank God.

It’s so bit like too way too much. Like it just feels like a giant weight. 

Kate Anthony: I was not gonna be able to afford it. I was certainly not gonna [00:25:00] qualify for a mortgage for it. All, all of the things, and I did, I moved into a rental that I was in until August of this year. So in that house for over 16 years and it, when I moved into it, it was on the wrong side of the tracks kind of thing.

The house had like horrible peeling paint. Like the exterior was all just like crumbling off. It had AstroTurf on the front porch. It was like, but inside it was like a beautiful craftsman, California craftsman home. 

Tami Wollensak: Oh wow. 

Kate Anthony: And but, and it was three bedrooms and a huge backyard. And it was affordable ’cause it was.

On the south side of the main side of main drag? By the time I moved, that house was well worth, well over a million dollars. 

Tami Wollensak: Crazy. 

Kate Anthony: They had of course painted it, painted the exterior. Yeah. At some point, probably five years after I moved in. And it ended up being like just this beautiful, and I made it [00:27:00] what it was.

Yeah. And I remember a friend saying to me too, when I was considering this, I was like, but his dad’s gonna have a big house and then I’m gonna live in a shitty house. And he was like, look, when my parents got divorced, my, my mom moved, had to move into an apartment building. And we had lived in a very beautiful, nice house and my mom had to move to an apartment, but it had a pool.

And he is it didn’t matter that there, that we were in an apartment versus a house. He’s what I just remember is that each place had something special. Yeah. Each place had something that we loved and that really stuck with me. Yeah. That even though it was a teeny tiny, like maybe two bedroom apartment, it had a pool.

Yeah. And my house did not have a pool or or anything like that. But what it had was me. And all of the memories that we built there over time, 

Tami Wollensak: holidays and all the fun birthday parties and all the amazing [00:28:00] events and stuff that you, all of the 

Kate Anthony: memories, 

Tami Wollensak: that’s great. You create that, that special warmth and.

Safety for your kids. And it doesn’t, the four walls really don’t matter. It’s hard for people to visualize when they’re going in the thick of it. Yeah. In the thick of it. But it really is true and they. If you feel less stressed by your financial situation and you’re not wondering how you’re gonna make that payment and how you’re gonna meet, have ends meet.

And you’re not having to tell your kids every day No, because 

Kate Anthony: yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: You can’t afford it. Yep. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: You know it’s gonna make your life a lot easier too, 

Kate Anthony: that’s right. That’s right. And the other thing about rentals, everyone says is it’s not mine, so I’m not gonna do anything to it.

And I say, you know what? Like as much as you can do everything to it, you live there. Yeah. It’s your house right now. Certain things. Obviously you’re not gonna 

Tami Wollensak: be, no, you’re not gonna rip, add a broom to [00:29:00] it or something. No, 

Kate Anthony: but like I painted every, during the pandemic course, especially, I painted every room lots of bright, vibrant, fun colors.

The money that I might have had to have paid for, repairs or whatever, if I had owned a home, went into creating a space that I loved and was comfortable in.

Got severe mold poisoning from my house. It was a phone call. To my landlord and it was $10,000 on their dime, not mine. Absolutely. That’s find it and remediate it. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. There is nothing worse than being in a house. ’cause I know this from, I did downsize and then I ended up. Doing a lot of repairs and stuff, but then when you go down into your basement or something and you own a house and water or like you have a plumbing issue or something and you have to make a [00:30:00] phone call and they tell you, oh, that’s gonna be a thousand dollars ma’am, blah, blah, blah, and you just wanna shoot somebody, 

Kate Anthony: right?

Absolutely right. Oh, that’s that the sewer line is, completely locked. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah, it’s backed up. And we’re gonna have to bring out a truck and 

Kate Anthony: that’s not my 12 grand when I’m a renter. So all this to say, home ownership is not everything. 

Tami Wollensak: No. 

Kate Anthony: It really isn’t. And there’s a whole sort of swath of people out there saying, rental renting is flushing money down the toilet every month.

There’s no investment in that. If the investment is in your peace of mind, if the investment is in, even if it’s a stop gap, like you don’t have to be in a rental forever. 

Tami Wollensak: Exactly. This is not like a lifetime decision. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: This is like getting your feet A life transition. 

Kate Anthony: Yes. 

Tami Wollensak: Like a divorce, which is a major life [00:31:00] transition.

Sometimes you just need to stop and breathe and sometimes renting and not. Rushing into the next purchase and all that kind of stuff. What if you buy in the wrong area because you didn’t, you didn’t have, feel like you had time to research it or look into it or whatever. 

Kate Anthony: What if you just buy you’re not like giving, there’s not a lot of time for you to go and look and check out neighborhoods and check this out and that out.

If you’re like, I have to buy something. That is on the market in the next 

Tami Wollensak: month. As soon as I have to move out of this house, I gotta buy something so I can move in. I have, I get people all the time in that position where they’re just like in a panic because their divorce is gonna be final in their settlement.

It says they have to move out 60 days post judgment, da, and they’re like, oh my God, there’s no inventory. It’s the middle of winter, da. Am I pre-approved? You have to stop and breathe. That’s why we do a lot of planning. We do a lot of planning and contemplation [00:32:00] stage. We sit back and we look at what all the options are.

A more informed person can make better, clear decisions. And the more information you have, the better. And when you look at all of these, okay, what does an assumption mean for me? If I assume my mortgage, I’m gonna give up a hundred thousand dollars of some asset. Okay? Maybe I’m in my fifties. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: Do I wanna give up a hundred thousand dollars of retire?

Maybe not, because maybe that And retirement is important to you. 

Kate Anthony: That’s right. 

Tami Wollensak: So we have to look at everything. It can’t be just like a blanket answer. 

Kate Anthony: Absolutely. And also, a hundred thousand dollars of retirement money is not the same as a hundred thousand dollars. 

Tami Wollensak: Great point. Yes, absolutely.

Kate Anthony: The dollar amount is not always the same. 

Tami Wollensak: 100%. 

Kate Anthony: When you’re thinking about this, right? You wanna build in these things. And I love [00:33:00] that you brought up the contemplation stage, right? That’s when you should be looking at this. You should be looking at, you should be calling Tami now. 

Tami Wollensak: It’s never, there’s never a too early.

I talk to people when they haven’t even told their spouses yet. Is that wrong? No. It’s not at all. You need to get all the information you need to, think about it, as long as you need to think about it. What does this mean for me? That’s right. What does this, that’s right. What are my options?

So that you can it can help you not only make some better informed decisions for yourself, but it can also give you a, make a smoother divorce process, right? If you have all the information and you’re not just relying on somebody to, to make the, your future decisions for you, right? It’s gonna cost you a lot less money.

Kate Anthony: Yes. And one caveat here is that you’re not going to, when you have the divorce conversation and your spouse is then who’s gonna keep the house [00:35:00] and da. Yeah. You’re not gonna say I’ve been speaking with this, divorce mortgage specialist. Yeah. And she said, because then they’re like, they’re 

Tami Wollensak: gonna have.

Kate Anthony: You don’t need them to know how long you’ve been planning talking about this, right? No. That’s not gonna make things go smoothly. 

Tami Wollensak: I would say. You would say something like we’re gonna find all of the information out together. 

Kate Anthony: That’s right. We’re, we have a lot of decisions to make. Today is not the data.

Make those decisions. Right now we’re just talking about. 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: But yeah, I can just imagine a lot. I’ve heard many of these stories of people being like then I told him that, this is how do, I did this research, I did that research. And then they’re like, reeling, not just from the bomb that just dropped, but from the fact that you’ve been building this bomb for six months.

Tami Wollensak: And they didn’t know it. And they feel behind the eight ball with information. That’s right. And they feel scared, and then they feel like they need to. And that’s when litigation can, start up. 

I talk to couples a lot too. I talk to both parties a lot and [00:36:00] sometimes even if I’ve talked to one initially, they’ll say, can I bring my spouse?

Can we have a second conversation? Absolutely. You both need to know what all of the information is so you can make the best decision for you and your family. 100%. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: If that’s an option, great. No problem. Whatever’s best. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. The other thing that, I, I know I have at least one client that the assumption is not gonna be possible.

The refi will be crazy. Expensive. Her husband would never qualify. So they’re actually two properties and he wouldn’t, and so they would have to, they’d have to refi both, buy each other out, do a, like a equity swap kind of thing. 

Tami Wollensak: Yep. 

Kate Anthony: He would never qualify for the mortgage and she actually might not either because now she’s self-employed and that takes, you have to have just FYI, I think it’s two to three years of provable income.

How many? Three. [00:37:00] Two years on tax returns to two years of tax return income on as a self-employed client. So for getting your mortgage 

right. So she, as a more recent self-employed person, she doesn’t have that, right? So the, she, there were, she was like, how are we gonna do this, without having to sell their properties?

They each are keeping one, staying on the mortgages together, but they have a clause that says. If one person defaults, it has to go on the market, even one month. It has to go on the market immediately. And I would go further Kate and offer a suggestion that I’ve seen couples do. Where they put a couple of months of mortgage paid.

Tami Wollensak: They’re 

Kate Anthony: doing that too. 

Tami Wollensak: Yep. In an account. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: And that way, and they stay and they monitor because if it’s gone 30 days to delinquent, you do not want a mortgage, a 30 day delinquency on your credit report. You can’t come back from that very [00:38:00] easily. Making sure that everything is on auto pay.

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: And if for some reason, the mortgage doesn’t get paid, there’s a fund of money that’s there, there’s an 

Kate Anthony: escrow account 

Tami Wollensak: that 

Kate Anthony: they’re keeping for just that as well. Yeah, there, there are ways to work these things 

Tami Wollensak: for sure. 

Kate Anthony: As we’ve talked about before, if you’re on a mortgage and you’re staying on a mortgage, you’re in a business long-term business relationship with this person that you’re divorcing, that may be fine for you.

That may be really undesirable for you for a variety of reasons. But you should definitely have backup plans and stop gap measures just in case. Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: I think it just, when people don’t write into their agreements, the what ifs Yes. Is where people get into trouble. Yeah. They have to think through the what ifs and they have to just know what they’re signing up for.

It’s sometimes not as easy as what it looks like on paper and talking to different professionals that can guide you to doing things [00:39:00] like, Hey, you don’t wanna have this go on for eternity. Maybe the, maybe three years or five years, if kids are going, getting outta high school or whatever, and you both are gonna on different mortgages, that might be a great plan for that family, right?

Knowing that they’re gonna sell at that period of time or whatever they’re gonna do. Or if you keep the house and he’s staying on the mortgage one, one person’s staying, one person is leaving but staying on the mortgage, you gotta talk through who’s responsible for repairs?

Kate Anthony: How are we, are we hiring them out? Who’s paying for those? If I’m a renter, if I’m basically paying you rent who’s responsible for the repairs they happen and who’s responsible for deciding? What repairs are done and not done. And necessary. And not necessary. 

Tami Wollensak: Oh, I wanna remodel my kitchen.

Guess what? That might not be covered under your little agreement or, or I think we can get more value out of the home. I don’t know. 

Kate Anthony: Let’s, we’re [00:40:00] investing in it, so let’s, are we are, is this a person that you wanna be in this long-term investment strategy with? That’s really, Tami, I’m wondering if you have any sort of real time examples of when an assumption did not work Yeah. And whether that was like a catastrophic and what, like what happened? How did people recover from that? 

Tami Wollensak: I have people come to me all the time that get denied from assumptions, right?

Because all they heard when they called the mortgage company. Is my loan Assumable? Yes it is. Okay, thank you. And they hang up and then they write it in their agreement. Stay at home moms, sometimes they just wanna keep the kids in the house and they just wanna keep things the way that they are, and they don’t understand that there’s timelines that need to be met for support income.

You shouldn’t even apply for a, an assumption until you received at least six months of receipt of [00:41:00] the support, ’cause that would be any mortgage guideline. So an answer to your question, they come to me, they get denied by the assumption, and they panic because there is not a backup plan in their agreements.

Isn’t there wasn’t written anything other than to sell. And then we have to take a really hard look and I had a case probably last month where she ended up having to refinance the mortgage. But great news, we were able to refinance the mortgage. We were able to pay off a bunch of debt. Her father went on as a co borrower for her.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: So that is not, that can’t happen with an assumption, right? So we were able to get creative her monthly. Cashflow was so much better. ’cause we paid off some really big liabilities for her with the new mortgage. 

Kate Anthony: Gotcha. Yeah. 

Tami Wollensak: And her dad went on as a co borrower, as I [00:43:00] said, and it’s called a non occupying Cobar.

Her dad didn’t live with her, but he went on as just supporting from an income. So like a co. Co-signer? As a co-signer. Yeah, exactly 

Kate Anthony: right. 

Tami Wollensak: And she was able to do it that way. So luckily it did end up. Working out for her, but I have seen where things don’t go that way and they end up having to sell.

When you think you’re keeping it and then you’re told it doesn’t work out and you have to sell, that’s probably more devastating. 

Kate Anthony: I was gonna say like comp, that’s like compounded grief, right? 

Tami Wollensak: Yeah. 

Kate Anthony: Especially when you’re like, I fought for the house and I got it. Yeah, okay. You got it from your attorney.

You got it legally, but you didn’t get it yet. 

Tami Wollensak: I think that is such an important thing to say to your listeners is attorneys are not financial advisors, they’re not Mortgage Brokers. All they’re there to do is get you through the legal process. They’re there to write up the agreements and make sure you’re in agreement [00:44:00] and that you’re protected from the law.

They are not there to give you guidance on financial information. 

Kate Anthony: Exactly. They could literally write in there like that. Ex party is going to pay for the children to go to Harvard. Children haven’t gotten, had not, have not applied for nor acceptance to Harvard yet. It’s just as it’s the same thing.

Tami Wollensak: Carrying out the agreements and what’s written on paper are, it’s really important that those two things are in alignment. What you’re agreeing to can be carried. 

Kate Anthony: Yep. Tami, this has been such a really, I think, really important conversation and I’m so glad you came back to have it.

Is there anything that you wanna leave women with questions that they need to make sure that they’re asking or anything, or reframe about their decision making in this area before we go? 

Tami Wollensak: I just think, I think we’ve covered a lot today and I thank you so much for having me because I do feel like the [00:45:00] house in either is such a big emotional component to that, but trying to separate yourself from making a business decision and a future stability from your finance.

Position, being financially stable post-divorce 

Kate Anthony: Yep. 

Tami Wollensak: Should be the guiding force for you and really understanding what all of the options are so that you can make the best informed decision. If somebody isn’t listening to you or if you’re asking questions and they’re not giving you the guidance, seek other professionals to help you because 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, 

Tami Wollensak: I know a lot of times they think that their attorney can, is gonna know all the things.

And they’re relying on their attorney to know all the things, and that is not going to help you from your, post-divorce life. 

Kate Anthony: Yeah, you need to call Tami. 

Tami Wollensak: Then Katie 

Kate Anthony: Tami. Where can everyone find you? 

Tami Wollensak: So take or leave the house is [00:46:00] my website. I did that because it was much easier than my name.

So take or leave the house.com and you can schedule a free 15 minute consult with me. We can get some really good information knocked out in those minutes together, and then we can take a, make a plan for next steps. 

Kate Anthony: Absolutely. Yep. That’s free guys. Free call with Tami. Very important, although I hesitate to stress that because Tami’s phone rings off the hook whenever she’s on it.

Tami Wollensak: I love it. I’m so passionate as I know you are to Kate with really giving the best information to people out there. It’s a very, murky, hard time to go through and, it’s so great that the kind of information like this is out there for people to listen to on their walks or while they’re working out or whatever, wherever they are, I find that’s just so great.

Kate Anthony: Yeah. I’m 

Tami Wollensak: thanks for all you do. 

Kate Anthony: I’m [00:47:00] so grateful for you, for, continuing to come back and whenever you learn something new or come up on something to let me know so that I, we can bring it to listeners ’cause I think really important stuff and we all adore you here, so thanks so much Tami.

Tami Wollensak: Thanks so much.

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DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

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